For our Catholic friends....

Scripture urges us to "work out your salvation in fear and trembling"

I'm glad God called me 27 years ago because I responded (worked out my
salvation in fear and trembling), received Him and now as a result,
enjoy the fullness of His Spirit and the assurance of heaven.....

.....unless of course God decides to take his gift back at anytime.

1 Antiosas 6:66

"For God changes His mind often and seeks to separate his love from whoever
fails to acknowledge and join a radical certain church (RCC) "

***Warning.....Scripture may be faked ***

 

So, do you believe that Noah and his family saved himself from death and the flood by building that Ark in obedience to God, or that he was saved by God's Grace? Or did God use Noah's faith and work to save Noah by Grace? Just wondering since Scripture says this corresponds to how we are saved in Baptism.

God Bless [/QUOTE]

Yes, I believe in baptismal regeneration. The Holy Spirit creates faith in us through God's Grace received by Holy Baptism.

 

Two problems with your smarty aleck little post:

1. I am not a ROMAN Catholic. Did you git that this time? As many times as I have said it, one must think that your problem is that you need a glass belly button to see clearly.

2. You don't understand the covenant of God AT ALL. Period.

Salvation is a covenant, not a contract. You think it is some kind of binding contract. It is not a contract. Jesus did not say "This is the contract with God in my Blood."

He said it is the covenant in His Blood.

Learn the difference and maybe you will stop making foolish statements.

 

Yes, I believe in baptismal regeneration. The Holy Spirit creates faith in
us through God's Grace received by Holy Baptism.

John, you cite a favorite Catholic doctrine.

How would you describe my faith (that the H.S. also created through
God's Grace) that I received in spite of my unbaptized state.

It's a matter of: Which comes first; faith or baptism.

It's possible to have faith without baptism and it's possible to have
baptism without faith. It might be honorable to include baptism after
faith, but does a lack of baptism negate faith? I'm that experiement
in progress.........27 years in an unbaptized state has not diminished
my faith.....it has increased.

 

I am well aware what Pelagius taught. If you prefer the narrow definition of Pelagianism, the term still fits since pagans who have not received Word or Sacrament are going to heaven according to the Roman church.

Peter did not tell the people they had to do anything. Holy Baptism is not a human work. It is the work of Holy Spirit whereby we receive baptismal grace not through any merit of our own.

I agree that we can fall from grace by persistent unrepented sin. But, when we confess our sins, He has promised to freely forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Yes, I have studied many Roman Catholic documents (e.g., Council of Trent). Have you read the Augsburg Confession of 1530? I think you would be surprised how many reforms the Roman church has implemented from that document.

 

Yes, saving faith can exist in the heart of those who have heard the Gospel but have not yet been been baptized. But, not in the heart of those who despise God's command to be baptized.

 

Brother Ed:
You have a guilty complex....as I was not directing that to you.

1. I am not a ROMAN Catholic. Did you git that this time? As many times
as I have said it, one must think that your problem is that you need a
glass belly button to see clearly.

Your comment here is humor....same as mine was.


2. You don't understand the covenant of God AT ALL. Period

Explain the "covenant" to me.

 

Carson Weber,

Just to clarify, not all my previous comments were directed against Roman Catholic doctrines. Some were in reference to the Protestant sects. I'm sorry if I did not made that clear.

 

But, not in the heart of those who despise God's command to be
baptized.

John, is that biblical fact or opinion only ?

 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3,4

 

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and
the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3,4

Like in "Keep the Sabbath Holy " ?

 

There was much more going on that that. If the Reformers wanted to reform the Church, they should have stayed in a cleaned it up from within. That is what God always did with the Church in the OT.

No, there were a lot of things happening during that time which had to do with political power and the transfering of obscene amounts of wealth by political chicanery. The Reformers didn't want to change that which was wrong...they wanted to introduce heretical doctrines which the Church had never taught in the past 1500 years, and they had to leave the Church to do so.

 

Singer --

Let's let the Bible define a covenant:

Eze 16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.

It is a relationship It is when two people come together in the unity of love. It is when two become "one flesh". It is best shown by that which the Puritans referred to as "the covenant of marriage." It is union. If you read the whole chapter of Ezekial 16 you will see this being beautifully described.

A contract, on the other hand, is the exchanging of goods and services. No love, no unity, no "one flesh" relationship.

If you wish a very crude comparison, if you go down to 3rd and McClay streets in Harrisburg at midnight, you can find a woman who will make a contract with you. You have something she wants (money) and she has something you want (sin). The deal is transacted without love at all. You give her what she wants - she gives you what you want. THAT is a contract. Cold, impersonal, uncaring.

A covenant is the when two people come together in love. They unite as one, and this union is so personal that many times, in 9 months, they have to give a name to that "one flesh" union. They come together because it is an expression of the love and union of wills which they share. The physical expresses the spiritual, it is an extension of the spiritual.

The description of God's salvation plan as presented by Protestants, and especially Calvinists, reduces God to one who is merely making a business transaction. Think of how cold it is that God chooses to "save" some and to "reprobate" others. There is nothing of love or desire for familial unity in that. Very impersonal, and not a "god" I would wish to worship. Being that impersonal, He might turn on me in a New York City second.

But in the covenant, we are described as "the Bride of Christ". We are described as "beloved" not as property to be bought. God sees union with us through Christ, and the Eucharist is that peak of that union experience here on earth, an experience which points beyond itself to the heavenly reality of the eternal union in love that all the faithful will enjoy one day.

A covenant can be broken. The relationship can be destroyed by one party falling "out of love" with the other. This usually happens because the wills of the two do not meet together in unity. There is tension as one pulls one way and the other resists. This is what sin is. God wishes us to do His will out of love. We wish to do our own will. That sin fractures the relationship. Our covenantal relationship is broken. And if we really get out of bounds, it is severed completely. We are no longer "one flesh" with our Beloved because we desire and have pursued our own will instead of His.

Scott Hahn's work on the covenant really gives the best overall explanations I have ever heard. A FATHER WHO KEEPS HIS PROMISE is a good read. THE COVENANTAL KINGDOM is another. I think you could probably find them online.

Brother Ed

 

Martin Luther was excommunicated by the Pope less than three years after posting his 95 theses on the abuse of indulgences in 1517.

From the Augsburg Confession, 1530, Nothing has been received on our part against Scripture or the Church Catholic. For it is manifest that we have taken most diligent care that no new and ungodly doctrine should creep into our churches.

It was the Evangelical Lutheran Church that preserved the Apostolic doctrine after heretical Rome rejected a return to the teachings of the Church Catholic. Attend a Confessional Lutheran church and you will hear creeds, liturgy, and hymns that date from the earliest times of the Apostolic church. "Falsely are our churches accused of abolishing the Mass; for the Mass is retained among us, and celebrated with the highest reverence. Nearly all the usual ceremonies are also preserved ." Augsburg Confession

Attend a Roman Catholic church and you will see that many of the reforms Luther advocated nearly 500 years ago have finally been implemented. But, unfortunately, changes were also made that show profound disrespect for the Mass. For example, women are allowed to distribute the Blood of Christ contrary to scripture and the Apostolic doctrine.

Confessional Lutherans require that all stewards of the mysteries be men. But Lutherans are considered the innovators!

 

Brother Ed,

Thanks for your thorough description of what you deem a covenant.

It seems to me to be impersonal to be bound to God by a system of ''things to do''
as the Catholic system is.....instead of based on love alone. God is love, we are
to love and we are told the new covenant is to "love God with all they heart, soul
and mind and our neighbors as thyself''.

Would God put away someone who came to Him in love which is the basis of receiving
the Holy Spirit?

On the other hand, anyone could force themselves to Mass, to church, to confession,
to emblem partaking, to baptism, to " repeating after me " and still be ''cold'' unto
the Gospel and the Lord.

I see it everyday in Catholics around me. I see it in Protestants and even in some of us
who are unchurched. It's simply a lack of "come unto me ye who labor and are heavy
laden and I will give you rest" (Jesus' words). I've complied with that and call it a
contract or call it a covenant....it works ! Outside of that method of pleasing God, our
ramblings, doings and chants might just be empty sounding brass.