For those who speak in tongues...

No to #9.

[edited as per request]

[ September 29, 2005, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

JW, here's a site for charismatics where you can get lots of feedback

Good Luck

Tam

[ September 29, 2005, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Tam, non-Baptist links are not permitted. I think you, with your background should be able to answer jw's questions without posting any links. Here is a good reason why such links are not allowed:

Is this typical of the Pentecostal's belief today?
That is the "heresy" which that site seems to be espousing. We don't need links to heretical sites spewing off doctrine in direct contradiction to the Word of God. I would think that even you would agree that the above quote is not in agreement with the Scriptures.
DHK

 

Oops!! I'm sorry, I momentarily forgot myself.

and just for the record, I don't agree with any of those things in your post.

Don't know where they came from, but they are not my beliefs.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend.

Tam

 

Gee, I don't think it's heretical. I think it's pretty much right on.

 

Aside from the violation of the direct command of Jesus in the Great Commission to Go, Disciple, and Baptize, what other heresy do you agree with?
DHK

 

JW~
#4 & 6. I was raise up a Baptist in Texas.
#1. When I hit my younger teens I would go to alter calls right and left for salvation because one thing I knew growing up Baptist..... I didn't want to go to hell. Although during this time in my life the fruit wasn't there (too young and not having a mentor to deciple me so being a teen I didn't read my bible much b/c I didn't understand it.) I really beat myself up for this too.
I went to United Pentecostal Churches and recived the gift of tounges in my upper teens, but it was like a few sylables with a couple vowels. BUT in 1999 (around 20 years later) things changed! I have no more doubt about my salvation, I have a passion for others to know Jesus, and I love to read the Word (and understand it now) and during this time the gift of tongues matured too.

#3. No I don't believe speaking in tounges is necessary for salvation. I do however believe tounges are a gift along with the other eight gifts mentioned in 1 Cor.12.

#7. I have't attended any Bible school or seminary yet. I have only read my bible all the way though once and that was last year. Not to say that before leading up last years total bible reading plan. I have read certian books all the way through at times for study purposes (since 1999).

#8. I cannot give you a website due to BB rules. But its all in the bible and the arguments are there as to whether one should or should not speak in tongues. It's up to the individual and what they accept and choose to believe in their own hearts I suppose. My main concern is if the person knows Jesus. One more thing... I read some other threads on the same subject here and read alot of things about people making animal noises ...ect during an charisamatic(sp?) exsperiance. Just wanted to say not all churches are like that (or atleast the one I have been attending recently. If I went to a church and I heard someone barking....well...lets say I'd might even find the nearest exit.

I hope this helps you with your paper/research. Let us know how it goes.
~Study to show yourself approved.~

 

He is not asking for a website or for links to ones.
He is asking for scholarly works, like:
"Charismatic Chaos" by John MacArthur. He does have a website, but I don't have to post it. Just state the name of the book and the author.

The Charismatics, by John MacArthur, 1978
The Corinthian Catastrophe, by George E. Gardiner, 1974

These are some good books that you can get a good start with.
No links are needed.
DHK

 

Aside from the violation of the direct command of Jesus in the Great Commission to Go, Disciple, and Baptize, what other heresy do you agree with?
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Christ's ministry was to the "Lost sheep of the house of Israel" and not to the believers in the age of grace. He had nothing to do with Gentiles, but only Israel. The great commission was to the Kingdom believers and it will be accomplished by them in the future.

My views seem heretical to you because you don't see the whole plan of God, particularily Pauls message, for today.

We are in the "Age of Grace" wherein all are equal before Him positionally provided we are saved. There is no Jew or Gentile today. There is a national Israel who's people are generally lost, but whose nation is being protected by God. Out of that nation will come zealots, that when given eyes to see who their Messiah is, will be thoroughly furnished to carrying the Gospel to all the earth. (The Great Commission)

 

He is not asking for a website or for links to ones.
He is asking for scholarly works, like:
"Charismatic Chaos" by John MacArthur. He does have a website, but I don't have to post it. Just state the name of the book and the author.

The Charismatics, by John MacArthur, 1978
The Corinthian Catastrophe, by George E. Gardiner, 1974

These are some good books that you can get a good start with.
No links are needed.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Excuse me......
#9. I cannot give you a website due to BB rules.

But as DHK so kindly pointed out as to what you would like as far as scholarly works goes.
#8. There are so many with their own spin on the subject of tongues. I might suggest going directly to the bible and reading Paul of Tarsus commentary on the subject. Some may think this as a cop out but even the scholars (for or aginst tongues) had to get their direction from the same source.

 

Sorry to disagree with our wonderful moderator here but JW said and I quote;

9. Anyone know of a charismatic bbs where I could get a better response from?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's why I forgot where I was and posted one.!!

Being charismatic, I know what kind of study he is doing. That is why I did not answer any of his questions. Let someone else particapate in it not me.

(bbs means bible board sites)

Peace,

Tam

 

I respectfully disagree.
bbs = bulletin boards
BB = Baptist Board

 

I respectfully disagree.
bbs = bulletin boards
BB = Baptist Board </font>[/QUOTE]I can always count on somebody to try to straighten me out.

Here again is what jw said charismatic bbs where I could get a better response from?

I'm pretty sure he was looking for people who speak in tongues, which we all know is not Baptists!! Just because it says bb doesn't mean Baptists have a lock on it.

Anyway, Ed, thanks ,I needed that!!!

Peace,

Tam

 

Hey, jw, how 'bout telling us what you meant!

Tam

 

Tamborine Lady: //I'm pretty sure he was looking for people who speak in tongues, which we all know is not Baptists!! Just because it says bb doesn't mean Baptists have a lock on it. //

There are carismatic Baptists. You seem to be
arguing with yourself?
Nevertheless: I then rephrase what I said:

quote:
----------------------------------
Originally posted by tamborine lady:
...
(bbs means bible board sites)

Peace,
Tam
----------------------------------

I respectfully disagree.
bbs = bulletin boards
Whereas, by contrast:
BB = Baptist Board

 

Sorry Tam, I didn't even see that abbreviation. I was looking at #8 where you directed me. But to tell the truth I wouldn't have known what the abbreviation meant, and would probably have taken it the same way that Ed did, since there are so many threads on tongues already archived in this forum. Anyway, those type of sites are easy to come by through a simple google search.
DHK

 

Aside from the violation of the direct command of Jesus in the Great Commission to Go, Disciple, and Baptize, what other heresy do you agree with?
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Christ's ministry was to the "Lost sheep of the house of Israel" and not to the believers in the age of grace. He had nothing to do with Gentiles, but only Israel. The great commission was to the Kingdom believers and it will be accomplished by them in the future.

My views seem heretical to you because you don't see the whole plan of God, particularily Pauls message, for today.

We are in the "Age of Grace" wherein all are equal before Him positionally provided we are saved. There is no Jew or Gentile today. There is a national Israel who's people are generally lost, but whose nation is being protected by God. Out of that nation will come zealots, that when given eyes to see who their Messiah is, will be thoroughly furnished to carrying the Gospel to all the earth. (The Great Commission) </font>[/QUOTE]

Irrespective of your views here is the heresy that is being promoted:

1. Water baptism is for the Christian. He says it isn’t.
2. It is for those who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He says it isn’t.
3. Water baptism is the opposite of faith?? he says. Ridiculous.
4. Water baptism is the opposite of pleasing the Lord God Jesus Christ. No, rather it is obeying the very command that Christ gave us in Mat.28:19,20. He is taking 1Cor.1:17 entirely out of its context. You cannot point to a single convert in Scripture that was not baptized, save for the thief on the cross who obviously did not have the opportunity.
5. Paul is talking about his general commission here. Yes he is—to preach the gospel. The commission is exemplified in the latter part of Acts 18 where the church at Corinth started:

Acts 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
--Note: They believed and were baptized. They may not have been baptized at the hand of Paul, but they were baptized.

6. The Church, and church age, started in Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit descended, and began to indwell all believers. He denies this.
7. Only Jews were present on the Day of Pentecost. Thus only Jews were saved. But he doesn’t recognize that once a Jew is saved he becomes a Christian, and is no longer a Jew. Thus the Church started at Pentecost, and its origin has nothing to do with Paul.
8. That was the Kingdom Church (Acts 2). No such thing. (Unless your speaking of the Millennial kingdom which is still to come).
9. (Only Jews were there, still being offered the kingdom by the resurrected Christ), he says. This a false statement. There is no offer of the Kingdom by Christ at all. Christ wasn’t even present. See the lie. Peter was offering them repentance, and salvation through repentance. The only way they could be saved was to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
10. “not the "Body of Christ church” They did become one body in Christ. They became the first local church in Jerusalem which is a body of local believers. And the Lord added to them daily.
11. {There was in those days the overlapping of the old & new covenants, which causes a lot of bad doctrine now}. The old covenant was done away at the cross. There was no overlapping. Certainly there was a time of transition for the church to go through, for the Word of God had not yet been completed. The Christians first met in the Temple, for example, and then the synagogues, and finally they were kicked out of those as well. This had no bearing on their doctrine.
12. “The Body of Christ Church didn't start until Saul became the Apostle Paul (years after the "Pentecost" of Acts 2)!” This is nothing but a heretical and outlandish statement. He needs to read and study his Bible. The Church started in Acts 2. There was a church already established in Jerusalem by the end of Acts 2. The believers were added unto the church.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

13. “Water baptism is a deception from Satan to keep real Christians powerless spectators & not cause him any trouble...like the powerless Christians in the USA today”
--Do you really believe this Hillclimber? That water baptism is a deception from Satan? That water baptism is meant to keep Christians powerless spectators?
Baptism is commanded in the Scriptures.
Believers are baptized in the Scriptures. There are no examples where believers are not baptized in the Scriptures (except for the thief). This guy is out to lunch.
DHK