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Foreknowledge of God

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by freeatlast, Aug 8, 2004.

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  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    The scary thing is that this kind of nonsense is real.

    The group "Evangelical Churches of Ireland United" just adopted it as part of their statement of faith.
     
    #41 NaasPreacher (C4K), Aug 11, 2004
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    (Found a smiley to express my thoughts)
     
    #42 NaasPreacher (C4K), Aug 11, 2004
  3. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    This is how you answer the question of what scripture supports your contention that God does not know the future? If you went on to quote the whole Bible, it would not support your contention.

    God is omniscient -- He knows everything past, present and future. God is beyond time and is not living moment to moment, so actually, I do not believe the future is the future for him. He just knows everything. If He didn't, he would not be God. He would be imperfect because he would be lacking in knowledge of something. How could this be God??? I'm mystified by your view. :confused:
     
    #43 Marcia, Aug 11, 2004
  4. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    C4K, do you mean they have adopted Open Theism as part of their statement of faith? I would really like to know this. Thanks!
     
    #44 Marcia, Aug 11, 2004
  5. GODzThunder

    GODzThunder New Member

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    God knows all and sees all. He even knows where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. [​IMG]
     
    #45 GODzThunder, Aug 11, 2004
  6. GODzThunder

    GODzThunder New Member

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    oh yes, and I don't believe God can see or withold knowledge of the future. I see that impossible because God makes the future and is the future. He is the alpha and omega.
     
    #46 GODzThunder, Aug 11, 2004
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    C4K, do you mean they have adopted Open Theism as part of their statement of faith? I would really like to know this. Thanks! </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry Marcia,

    I have no documentation soprobably should nothave posted that. I was at a meeting of the Association of Baptist Churches of Ireland (as a visitor) where it was being discussed, then heard from a friend who was at a meeting where it was discussed and according to hin adopted by AECI, but have not documented it.
     
    #47 NaasPreacher (C4K), Aug 12, 2004
  8. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Thanks, C4K. If you happen to find out that they adopted it, could you either post it maybe in the News that Affects Baptists Worldwide forum, or go to my website and email me from there (by clicking on "Contact CANA")? I do not post my email here for various reasons. Thanks.
     
    #48 Marcia, Aug 12, 2004
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Ooops, guess my email is posted here. I was thinking of another list. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #49 Marcia, Aug 12, 2004
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Will do Marcia.
     
    #50 NaasPreacher (C4K), Aug 12, 2004
  11. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    I think that the problem is that men cannot handle the idea that God has always been. It is one thing to say He has always been and another to be able to comprehend it. Our brains just cannot keep going back into infinity and comprehend the idea of eternal existence when it involves God. So what we have done is come up with teachings that are not biblical about time. Teachings like God lives outside of time and so forth.
    In any question about time being a created thing the answer is yes and no. First if we will take a look at the Gen. account we see that God created everything in 6 days. In the beginning of the creation there was no sun, stars moon or any other thing to determine time. However the scripture clearly shows that time was still there. So time has always been, but how it is understood or dealt with by man is part of the creation.
    And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
    For there to be a reckoning of a day without any way to determind the length of that day there has to be time. Time is not an entity in itself and more then it is the result of the creation and while it is true that God is not subject to it, time is a result of the being (or existence) of God. However that being said the manner in which time is now determined by man IS a part of the creation, but time itself has always been.
    As to does God exsist in time, yes, but not necessarily in the same dimension of that time which we hold or value as our time. I believe that he moves in and out of that dimension. There is the aspect of time itself and the aspect of how time is valued, but time is as eternal as God Himself in my opinion.

    So again there is no scripture that even suggests that time has not always been, or that God knows all eternity before it takes place. He does know the beginning from the end and that is because He has ordained it. He clearly does know certain other events as the scripture points out, but in every case He has ordain those events. To me this makes Him far more superior then does the idea that He knows everything in all history before it happens and knows it from eternity past,.
    I hold that He knows every possible scenario of all eternity and if one thinks about that it will blow the mind. He then has created beings that are permitted to live out there lives within those possibilities yet they are governed by certain limits He has ordained. By the way those possibilities are as infinite as He is and only governed by His omniscient and Sovereign will.

    Now I realize that when this subject is brought up many feel that what is happening is that we are robbing God of some power or ability. I do not feel that. I feel that He has already been robbed by the teaching that He knows all eternity before it happens. On the other hand for Him to know every possibility for all eternity and create beings within those possibilities allowing them the freedom to live and act out their own wills and to still be able to hold control over those actions by His Devine and sovereign will blows my mind. Believe me it would be much easier for me to go with the mainstream on this and teach that God knows all history before it happens, but scripture in my opinion just does not bare that out. It actually points in the other direction in my opinion.
    I will be looking for your reply, as well as those of others. God bless
     
    #51 freeatlast, Aug 12, 2004
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Sorry folks - I just cannot grasp a "theology" that says we rob God by saying He is omniscient. I guess I'd better step aside in my ignorance.
     
    #52 NaasPreacher (C4K), Aug 12, 2004
  13. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Anytime that we add to or take from the word we rob God and there is no scripture that teaches that he knows all history before it happens.
     
    #53 freeatlast, Aug 12, 2004
  14. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    freeatlast said:

    National Israel's history in a nutshell, told by God to Moses, before Israel crossed over to Jordan, and before Moses' death:

    Deuteronomy 31:16-21
    You just robbed God of His glory by pulling Him down to your level of ignorance of what will transpire at the next hour.
     
    #54 pinoybaptist, Aug 12, 2004
  15. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    National Israel's history in a nutshell, told by God to Moses, before Israel crossed over to Jordan, and before Moses' death:

    Deuteronomy 31:16-21
    You just robbed God of His glory by pulling Him down to your level of ignorance of what will transpire at the next hour.     </font>[/QUOTE]If you would read the posts you would not have so much egg on your face. :eek: What God predicted he ordained first. That means it had to happen because of Hos word, not because he looked and saw it.
    [​IMG]
     
    #55 freeatlast, Aug 12, 2004
  16. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Oh, I get it. You're the Absoluter. The one who says God has no foreknowledge really because even when you expel hot air (like you're doing now), he foreordained that.

    Okay. I gotcha.
     
    #56 pinoybaptist, Aug 12, 2004
  17. GODzThunder

    GODzThunder New Member

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    in our minds, perfection is based upon omniscience. To have a God that is any less is to have a great flaw in our view of perfection thus making God imperfect. It is in us to see omniscience as perfection. Hmmmm, I wonder where we get such a thought from???
     
    #57 GODzThunder, Aug 12, 2004
  18. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    If God does not know everything, then He lacks some knowledge of something and is imperfect in his knowledge. This is not the God of the Bible.

    How does scripture support your view that God does not know everything?
     
    #58 Marcia, Aug 13, 2004
  19. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Freeatlast, does not God say that he declares the end from the beginning? Does not Psalm 139 state that a man's days are numbered and known by God prior to that man's creation?

    Oops, sorry for introducing Scripture into your little idolatrous theory.
     
    #59 Daniel David, Aug 13, 2004
  20. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Since God invented time, and is outside of it, of course He knows all that has happened before it happens. He declares so Himself in Isaiah (read chapters 40-48 for a personal Bible study!).

    Do not, however, confuse foreknowledge with foreordination.

    He knew man was going to sin, therefore the penalty for that sin was accepted by Him from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8). However He never ordained man to sin, or He would have been contradicting His own directions to Adam and Eve.

    I can allow my children free choice on an issue, and still know them well enough to know exactly wht that choice will be before they make it. And God knows us ever so much better than we know our children.
     
    #60 Helen, Aug 13, 2004
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