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Francis Chan, leaning Romanist?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by rlvaughn, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I have not seen this discussed on the Baptist Board. If it has been I missed it and apologize. So far as I know Francis Chan is not a Baptist, but I think he is likely influential in some Baptist circles. I am posting this here because I am interested in the Baptist take and Baptist discussion about what Chan said, rather than all the denominationalists who might respond if I open the topic in that area of the BB.

    Francis Chan has made comments that make me think he is leaning toward Roman Catholicism. Am I overreacting? What is your take?
    • I didn’t know that for the first 1,500 years of church history everyone saw it [the Eucharist/Lord’s supper] as the literal body and blood of Christ. And it wasn’t till 500 years ago someone popularized a thought that it’s just a symbol and nothing more. I didn’t know that!
    • ...for the first time, someone put a pulpit in the front of the gathering, because, before that, it was always the body and blood of Christ that was central to the gathering.
    • I say that because the Church is more divided than at any time in history...And for a thousand years there was just one church. We are so used to growing up at a time when there are literally over 30,000 denominations.
    Listen to the whole clip; comments found HERE.
     
  2. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    You may be jumping to "Romanist" too fast. The EOC, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians and others believe in real presence.
    Real presence does not always translate to the Roman view of Transubstantiation. Christ can be really present in the wine and wafer without the wine and wafer becoming the literal flesh and blood of Jesus.
    This issue is something that all believers should wrestle with. It doesn't surprise me that Francis Chan is wrestling with this. It does surprise me it has taken this long.
     
  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I am surprised that Francis Chan is a newcomer to church history. Well, maybe I am not surprised. He seems to be enthralled with pre-Reformation Christianity. One of the foundational truths that came out of the Reformation is not that the Lord's Supper is the focal point of Christian worship, but the supremacy of the Word of God. Except for a few burning wicks, for nearly one thousand years after the fall of the Western Empire, there was a famine for the Word of God. If Chan winds up swimming the Tiber it will be because he has abandoned the authority of the Word.
     
  4. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    No doubt.
    With the way that Chan has vacillated on church function it doesn't surprise me he is jumping all over regarding real presence in communion.
    Hopefully he is studying scripture itself on the subject. Also, he/we need to consider if the last supper was a sedir meal or not. If it was a sedir then what Jesus is saying in the supper has a cultural context that helps us understand what he is saying.
    Chan is a person I read with a bit of a grain of salt as he tends to like extremes.
     
  5. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    What sort of background does he have anyway? What seminary did he attend?
     
    #5 Jerome, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    The Master's University and Master's Seminary, according to Wikipedia. (There is no citation for that, however.)
     
  7. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Ah, that makes sense.
     
  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I consider that I could be. I do understand that there are real presence views that are not transubstantiation. However, it does seem like he is setting this in a Catholic context, saying there was just one church and communion doctrine for 1500 years, and using a common Catholic polemic against Protestantism -- that there are 30,000 denominations (and they mean to blame the Reformation with this).
    His statement that the pulpit has replaced the body and blood of Christ seems to correspond with the oft-repeated Catholic statement that the authority of the Bible has replaced the authority of the Church. I would also assert that he is not enthralled enough with pre-Reformation Christianity. By that I mean that he has missed a substantial part of church history if he thinks that for 1,500 years everyone believed that the bread and wine was the literal body and blood of Christ. Certainly Catholics can give us quotes that seem to say that. Perhaps some of the writers did mean that (I think early on they did not), but Catholics also misrepresent John 6:54 to make it say that as well. On the other hand, they fail to mention statements where writers use terms like "figure" and "symbol" to refer to the elements -- long long before 500 years ago.
    Hopefully. However, much of what he says seems to be grounded more in his newfound understanding of church history.
     
  9. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, but I know they're very wary of him, now. He seems to be extremely inclusive with not only Catholicism, but also the New Apostolic Reformation (a cult).



    I see nothing but red flags with Francis Chan, especially after defending Mike Bickle (IHOP) and speaking at his conferences.

    I also know he's very defensive of Roman Catholics.
    Francis Chan Declines to Share the Gospel With Catholic, Says Holy Spirit Doesn’t Want Him To

    He also apologized to Catholics at his Church after a guest speaker preached against Catholicism, and refused to allow the speaker to take questions afterward.



    I had to research all this because I was at a Church for a short time that promoted him constantly. Bottom line, he's bad news. He's not your typical Master's grad. Don't be fooled by the degree.
     
    #9 Calminian, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
    • Informative Informative x 2
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So he is wrong because he doesnt know his bible. The use of a pulpit can be found in the old testament. There was constant division and issues in the 1st century church and he would know that if he ever read any of Pauls epistles
     
  11. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Until reading this thread I had never given much thought to the "Lord's Supper" being miraculously transformed into the actual body & blood of Christ.
    BUT, seems to me that this concept is supporting cannibalism & is a direct disobedience to God's command to "--not drink the blood --" in the OT.
    I guess this has never been a problem for me simply because I don't believe it.:rolleyes:
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he must have forgotten that we are commanded to give forth the real Gospel. and not just accept the false one of Rome!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He seems to see Unity as trumping right doctrines, and he seems to feel that its just the Roman view on the sacraments, or the Baptist view, but there is many positions between strictly physical presence and strictly symbolic!
     
  14. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    His signature book is Crazy Love, and ironically, he does actually have a crazy view on love. Unity before Truth
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How about Unity based upon truth?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Flashback: The Gospel Coalition council members Mark Driscoll and Joshua Harris interviewing John MacAthur protégé Francis Chan:

     
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