Free-Masonry and the Founding Fathers...

This came from an actual mason, a guy who was high up. Are you a mason?

 

Huh? You want to go back to the days of an "official religion?" And which religion might that be? Not likely mine, but yours.

 

negative.

you are really stretching it, man!

 

Actually, in context, Peter is talking to Christians about the church and not a political state.

 

==There were offical religions during the colonial times and I believe there were at least two state religions until the mid 19th century (Massachusetts being one). I would have to look it up to be sure though.

 

I was a member of various masonic bodies for 10 years until I left in complete disgust 24 years ago. . I was a member of both the scottish rite and the york rite.


The scottish rite is the 32nd degree of masonry. The york rite is the commandery.

You have to be a member of either one of these branches of masonry to belong to the shriners.

The shriners are the drunks you see staggering in numerous parades around the country.


I left the masons before I was saved. Their dishonesty and hypocrisy is so apparent you would have to be blind, deaf, and stupid to to recognize it.


* you will notice throughout this post that I refuse to capitalize the name of any masonic body. To capitalize the names their bodies is a form of acceptance of their heinous doctrines, and I refuse to do it. Yes, I realize I am talking about "modern-day masonry." I haven't set foot in a masonic "temple" in 24 years, and I wouldn't now if you paid me to.

 

I am still waiting for the evidence that America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles! All that talk of "Providence" etc. is Deist to the max. And yes, as someone has pointed out, several colonies did have "official religions" and in fact most did at one time or another. Moreover, what the founding fathers were reacting against in being soooo very strident about separation of church and state was also the situation in Britain, where until very recently anyone who was not a member of the Church of England was at substantial disability.

Now, in light of all those very good reasons for separation of church and state, I am strongly opposed to any form of religious test for public representatives. When was this ever done? In the McCarthy era, maybe!

 

i don't have time right now to read all the posts - i saw "freemasonry" and i thought i'd but in just the once.

has anyone talked about the different degrees of freemasonry?

i just wanted to post this:

sorry. had to.
i like all this conspiracy theory stuff. haha.

 

Gekko, I don't think anyone is claiming conspiracy whatsoever. We are just discussing what theological framkework informed the minds of the founding fathers. No need for conspiracy.

 

What is interesting is to go back and look at the criteria for being a Senator and or Congressman according to different states. Up till about 40 or 50 years ago (when he last state - I think N or S Carolina - revised its stateman criteria for election) It was manditory to be a Christian believer and Most states maintained the statemans had to be a faithful member or member in good standing of their church.

It is an interesting look-see. Check out your own states historical documents concerning it criteria of election for its statesmen.

 

Can you provide some sources for this? That requirement might have been pretty easy to fulfill in some places and not in others which have long had a substantial Jewish population.

 

You can not serve two masters. You will love the one and hate the other. You slowly get away from believing truth and start beliving their lies. Your ears get tickled and you start to like it. Hence the starting out Christian beliefs, ending up intermingled with the occult
God help us all to keep our eyes and ears opened to the truth raying:

 

Here are some and the webpage as well that it came from. There are more but this should suffice as it is informative but not exhaustive. I cut a couple out that were repeated or if the statement was only limited to "...no cleagy could be a state official.."
http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/state.html

 

Hello Allan and thanks for the post! It most likely will prove useless though as there are some who will deny the truth no matter how few or many facts you choose to put before them. It also says something when they choose to refute the truth but then show themselves apparently ignorant to history. Hence, why you were required to post historical State Constitutions. I wonder if they realize even today virtually every State acknowledges God in their Constitution. http://www.churchstatelaw.com/stateconstitutions/index.asp



The same few would deny the Ten Commandments were the basis of our laws. Though it only has to be pointed out how atheist groups and such have fought to remove the Ten Commandments from Government Buildings. The Supreme Court has had to rule numerous times in recent history, upon these matters. Sometimes new displays are removed, depending on the “intent”, but most often the ruling is positive as the Courts note the “historical” significance of the Ten Commandments in America’s founding.

These same few are most likely unaware of the many other Christian principles which our laws were and still are in many instances, based upon. A mere few examples would be restrictions against alcohol, gambling, polygamy, sodomy or Sunday closing laws etc. As Sunday was the day designated by Christians to be the Lord’s days and a day of rest.
This is something the Founders also faithfully observed and they indeed made an exception in the Constitution itself. Article 1, Section 7 “...If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law. http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/bdsdcc:@field(DOCID+@lit(bdsdccc0801))



These are only a few examples of a mountain, of factual things and historical events. But again the Government itself recognizes the role Christianity played in the Founding of America and within Government.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/religion.html

Again the Supreme Court in 1892, and others briefly at times, made an exhaustive effort in researching the role Christianity played in America and stated emphatically,

http://www.languageandlaw.org/TEXTS/CASES/HOLYTRIN.HTM

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=133&invol=333




Yes, some of the Founding Fathers would have been poor Christian examples, if at all, and made derogatory remarks in regards to such. Whereas many others were quite amiable and steadfast. However, what some stated should be put into context but most often it is not. Many such comments were made in regards to the established Church or corrupt hierarchy as found in Europe and at different times within their lives.
It would be interesting to know how many on this board can say their walk in life has always been a reflection of a good Christian? Amazing Grace is the most venerated hymn among Christians and Churches, yet anyone could pick and choose statements or actions to imply John Newton hated such. After all we are called to salvation and that is what the hymn is about. Such can be seen in our lives and was no different than some of these Founders.


Yes it is true Thomas Jefferson, who is typically the most quoted in this regards, re-wrote the Bible having removed instances of miracles as Amity noted. However, that fact in itself is far removed from Amity’s original argument of Deism or some man conceived deity. There are Christians and Churches today, even on this board, who deny parts of the Bible, IE: account of Creation, Noah’s Ark, Immaculate Conception etc. It simply shows a degree of ignorance and lack of faith. After all they accept God created everything or Christ as our Savior, but they doubt His miracles?

In regards to George Washington, some simply try to tear him down by implying he was lacking in faith as he was not public or personal about such. This again is false as he was quite public, see his inaugural addresses alone, but reserved. Yes, most often he used what we might today consider impersonal language when speaking of God. This had more to do with his faith and customs during the time but in fact he did also use very personal language when speaking of our Lord. Today we have Christians who might refer to God as the Man or my Friend etc, which is fine for them. However, such would not have been the case during that time and it shows little reverence for the Lord.

If Amity thinks using language such as “Creator”, “God”, “Providence”, “Ruler of Nations”, “Father” etc, such as Washington and others used is Deistic, then he should word search the Holy Bible.

His adopted daughter, as others, give an account of why he was so private with his faith and it was not due to a lack of faith but because of his faith.

I wonder if those few on this board even realize Thanksgiving was the day designated in giving thanks to our Lord, or that many other such days were proclaimed in giving thanks and asking for forgiveness? In addition some keep posting with today’s standard as in case with the Masons and when speaking of different religions and God. However, there is no comparison in respect to religious and non-religious diversity as found today in America. Others were looked upon as “infidels” or “lost” and rare or non-existent in America during that time. The diversity as found during that time was between different Christian denominations. Atheism and secularism was considered both dangerous to man and to Government as they saw it.

I wonder if there are those who are even aware that our Founders were involved with or formed such organizations as the Bible Society etc; Or that they held Church services within the Congress itself which continued for the first 100 years or so. Or that they still pray before sessions today as started with the Founders. Or that the greatest majority of our first colleges were specifically Christian.

Amity, God would most likely disagree with you and such was done also in Biblical days.

Exodus 18:21 Moreover you shall select from all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them to be rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.

Psalm33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD,
The people He has chosen as His own inheritance.


take care, in Christ:jesus: