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Free Will Cont'd

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by J.D., Aug 18, 2006.

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  1. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    I couldn't get this to post in the other thread for some reason so I thought I would start a new thread with this post.

    BD17, that's interesting that you posted Packer's Intro - just two nights ago I stayed up late and read it and about the first 100 pages of "Death of Death". Hay, great minds think alike, right? :)

    Anyway, I noticed the exegesis of the verses I posted can be summed up by the Pelagian camp thusly:

    John 1:13 "who were born...not of the will of man, but of God"



    Pelagian: “God made a mistake; he meant to say “who were born by the will of man”

    Eph 1:11"who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will"

    Pelagian: “God made a mistake, he meant to say “who worketh SOME things (those few things that he decided not to make man sovereign over) after the counsel of His own will”

    James 1:18 "by His own will begat he us"



    Pelagian: “God made a mistake, he meant to say “of OUR own will begat he us”

    Romans 9:16 (typo on post) "so it is not to him that willeth..."

    Pelagian: Responding to Rom 9:11, stated that God can reject entire nations but not single individuals. Huh??

    Deuteronomy 29:4

    Pelagian: Didn’t respond, why should he?

    Isaiah 46:10

    Pelagian: Didn’t respond, just as well.

    Psalm 65:4"Blessed is the man whom the Lord choosest, and causest him to approach unto thee"

    Pelagian: Didn’t respond, it’s just as well. He would go on another long diatribe about how it CAN’T mean what it says because anyone knows that in order for God be to “fair”, and to meet fallen man’s corrupted notion of justice, He must allow man to have “free will” by which he may choose, of his own natural ability, no matter how corrupted by sin, to become born again of his (man’s) own will, by his own faith which God did not supply, or if he did, he did it not in an effective way but in an ineffective way so that only man can make salvation effective by the little piece of righteousness that we did not lose when Adam sinned, so that those of us that believe are more righteous than those that do not choose to believe, and therefore we can boast of our righteousness.
     
    #1 J.D., Aug 18, 2006
  2. BD17

    BD17 New Member

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    So true J.D. so very true.
     
    #2 BD17, Aug 18, 2006
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It is incorrect to merely assume that the ARminian position denies that God is the author of salvation. That simply is an imaginary strawman conveniently told by one Calvinist to another.

    The Arminian position is that "God sovereignly CHOSE free will" - God "Sovereignly CHOSE" to SO LOVE the WORLD that HE GAVE His only son -- "yes really".

    That IS the distinctive between Arminianism and 4 and 5 pt Calvinism.

    "God so Loved the World that HE gave ... Yes REALLY".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #3 BobRyan, Aug 18, 2006
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    It's so encouraging to see not every Christian nowadays boasts Arminianism; but finds solace in God's will FOR him. Keep it up fellows; God be with you!
     
    #4 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Aug 19, 2006
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    I wonder how many threads have gone through BaptistBoard on this very topic -- it would be interesting to know.
     
    #5 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Aug 19, 2006
  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Would BaptistBoard allow one to compile a book on the subject from it's forums? I would love to do it god granting me grace and time for it.
     
    #6 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Aug 19, 2006
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    So, God chooses the individual's will, but not the individual, eh ? Wow, heaven must be full of wills but no individuals. Moses' will is there, but not Moses. Enoch's will is there, but not Enoch. Elijah's will is there, but not Elijah. John's will is there, but not John.
    And in the mount of transfiguration, God gave Moses and Elijah's wills the human forms that these wills existed in so Peter could see them.

    How about reading it as "God SO loved the world, that He gave ....." like meaning "this is the way God loved the world, that He gave....."
     
    #7 pinoybaptist, Aug 19, 2006
  8. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Its also encouraging to see that not as many babies are condemned to hell as they were when I first come on BB by some.
     
    #8 Brother Bob, Aug 19, 2006
  9. BD17

    BD17 New Member

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    Bob stuff the baby argument you have already been shown Calvinist do not believe babies go to hell.
     
    #9 BD17, Aug 19, 2006
  10. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Fact is that some do. Most don't.
     
    #10 pinoybaptist, Aug 19, 2006
  11. BD17

    BD17 New Member

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    I know the fact also is that he has been shown that the ones here that have addressed the issue with him do not.
     
    #11 BD17, Aug 19, 2006
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Unto their own destruction - your quote - the result of man's decision - this is his choice and what he deserves - puts God under obligation somehow to send everyone into damnation -- yet amazingly, God does not do so but chose from among all these damned - babies included - those He had chosen to save- from before they did wrong or right.
     
    #12 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Aug 19, 2006
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Apparently not all.

    Not so, look at the following quote but sure you got a answer for that too. You always convince yourself of some way around that which goes against your beliefs.

    So, there you go BD17, once again you stick your foot in your mouth. I guess you don't speak for all Calvinist.

    I don't blame you though for wanting it to go away! I sure don't.
     
    #13 Brother Bob, Aug 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2006
  14. BD17

    BD17 New Member

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    GE has addressed this with you before Bob, he said he does not personally believe that they do but that they deserve to, big difference. So take the foot out of mine and place it in yours.
     
    #14 BD17, Aug 19, 2006
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Can you read or what? Now put back in yours.

    Baby Killer!!! will get them everytime:) :laugh:

    Everytime they say we advocate "saving ourselves" I like to use it!
     
    #15 Brother Bob, Aug 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2006
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