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Featured Free Will

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by ryarn, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Brother, ppl make many choices everyday. Coffee or milk, scrambled eggs or over easy(queasy more like it), what outfit to wear that day, &c. But that is not free will.

    Our wills are bound in sin and Satan at birth. David even talks about being conceived in sin. He talks about how the wicked are at birth. The Christ said this “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”[Matthew 6:24] If someone has a master, they are a slave. Even post-conversion, the saved are slaves to the Christ. That’s why Paul used the words Christos Dolous, bond-servant, slave.

    Then Paul writes of this For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.[Romans 6:5-7] And also wrote What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.[Romans 6:15-18]

    Now ppl can improve their natural state by making good choices. The drunkard or drug addict can sober up and live good lives in order to gain custody of their children they lost due to their addictions. The thief can stop stealing. The liar can stop lying. The gambler can quit gambling, &c. But only God can change their will in regards to how they view Him. Romans 8:5-9 states For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
    However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.


    The unregenerate are hostile towards God. At enmity, have an ill-will towards Him. Want nothing to do with Him. Remember, only those who receive Him are born of Him.[John 1:12-13] Only those who love Him have been born of Him.[John 4:7]

    God must do the first work, ergo new birth, before the unregenerate person can do theirs.
     
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  2. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Active Member

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    Then you must not have read very carefully.
     
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  3. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for this reasoned, well-thought-out reply. You and I are going to disagree on this issue, but I appreciate the time you put into this post.

    Paul was writing this epistle to the Christians in Rome. He was warning them not to allow their flesh to, once again, enslave them. Since he warned them, it is obviously a danger for them to do just that. Paul himself testified of his struggles with sin and the flesh (ch. 7).

    Verse 16 of chapter 6 is a key to understanding what Paul is teaching: "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (KJV)

    In other words, it is quite possible for a saved person to backslide and become a servant of sin once again. In fact, this is a daily occurrence for many Christians. Again, Paul testifies that he has not gained complete victory over the flesh.

    So, my question to you is, does a man receive a free will only after salvation? Paul is clear that all saved people have a choice to whom or to what they will become a slave (vss. 6:18,20).

    Spiritual blindness is the result of a choice not to believe.
    II Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. (KJV)

    My assertion is that all men have a free will and can freely exercise that free will before and after salvation.
    II Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (KJV)

    Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them
    [clearly revealed within them - MKJV]; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    (KJV)

    Unsaved people have "clearly seen' the truth but they choose to ignore it. That is why they are "without excuse."
     
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  4. calledbyHisgrace

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    I agree that all men have an ability to come to Christ. As it's been pointed out, men are willingly ignorant, and without excuse. I think that where we actually disagree though, is why some people do come.

    The Bible says in John 3:19-21:
    "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."


    According to this passage, the only people who come to the light are those who "doeth truth".
    Elsewhere, we're told that, naturally, "there is none that doeth good, no, not one" (Rom 3:12).

    I agree that all men have a choice, but I believe that the only reason that anyone makes the right choice is that God has already done a work in them:

    "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7)

    "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." (1 John 2:29)

    As far as I can tell, there are only two scenarios:

    "every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light"
    "every one that doeth righteousness is born of him"
     
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  5. calledbyHisgrace

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    Again, I recommend studying the concepts of natural ability and moral ability.
     
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  6. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    He proves so much, I never need to reply, I just sit back and learn ;)
     
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