Freemasonry vs. Christianity

Mike it is not vague at all It clearly states Salvation can not be found in Freemasonry. It is not something to be found in the Fraternity. Because Freemasonry takes no stance because it is not a religion. It tells you to look else were. But Freemasonry points you in the Right Direction with Lion of the Tribe of Judah, God in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity and Jehovah. As you futher study Freemasonry you will be pointed to Christ and from there it is your choice.

Mike if the Masonic Bible is not a Offical Grand Lodge Doc than most deffinetly the quotes of the Masters of the Lodges You presented are not as well. If you do not give the Masonic Bible Merit than why do you give the quotes Merit. The Answer is because the Masonic Bible proves you Wrong!

 

Masonic Lodges openly state that they are not a religion nor have any answers to those types of questions, often these things are made as statements on their different websites.

Take a while to have a look at some of the threads in the Bible Versions Forum, you will see that most threads focus on King James Version Onlyism. KJVO people believe that the 1611 KJV Bible is the only one correct and all other translations are wrong. Yet if you look at the language of the 1611 KJV, it is barely readable in places, the English language has evolved to the point where the old english is like another language to people. A case in point being that where William Shakesphere penned "Romeo Romeo wherefore art thou Romeo", he was not asking where Romeo was, in fact something quite different.

The Guiness book of recoreds records the first official Masonic Lodge as esisting in the early 16th century in Scotland. By the same reasoning, the texts have different meaning to what people naturally assume. Sure they mention God, yet so do all texts from that time, the Parliments of the time actually passed resolutions on what would be taught in the churches in those days, all people in western countries were assumed to be "Christian" albeit veneered. Hence masonic texts simply followed the common language phrases and expressions of the time.

The Masonic Lodge prints Primary Documents stating to new members that they are not a Religion, nor offer any plans of Salvation. They are not trying to hide anything, any of there writings including the 33rd degree are available online, there is no secrets that are revealed about God in the 33rd degree, or any other hidden religious stuff.

Freemasons are a Fraternity not a Religion, sharing the same hallmarks as the Elks, Oddfellows, Buffaloes and even Scouts to some point. To suggest that they are a religious group is like using the Bible to say there is no God, sure there is a verse that says that, preceded by "a fool says in his heart". Yet to take it out of context, deliberatley ignoring there statements that they are not those things is unfair and unreasonable in any argument.

 

Mike
No one is saying Freemasonry is Christian it is not nor does it claim to be. It was setup and uses teachings from the Bible on how to conduct yourself as a person. It uses the teachings of Brotherly Love, Relief and Hope. It uses Scripture to present these teachings. The lessions are not with alot of other religions. It is compatiable with Christianity. The Muslim, Jew and Hindu will have to over look or reintupet some of what is being said for it to be compatiable with their religion. But the basics of Freemasonry they agree on Brotherly Love.

What is wrong with a Fraternity who's members in the beginning were Christian only who used the Bible to teach lessions of Morality and Brotherly Love than opening the door to non-christians and sharing those same lessions with them.

Christianity states we must be pure without sin to goto Heaven which is cleansed by the Blood of Jesus Christ.
Freemaosnry states we must be pure without sin to goto Heaven. And than states by Education or endeavors and the BLESSINGS OF GOD we hope to be perfect. Than the California Monitor states straight from the Bible a quote from Christ that "The kingdom of heaven is within you." and to find the Kingdom within. IF you were to research this you would start with the refrences give and look at the Great Light(The Holy Bible) and read the very words of Christ which can lead some to Him.

Nowhere does Freemasonry state that you will goto Heaven it only states Hope. And since it draws its lessions from the Bible we are looking to the Bible for the Hope with in it.

 

(We quote primarily from Grand Lodge rituals and monitors, which are official Masonic documents. To further prove our points, we often buttress these quotes with qoutes from prominent Masonic authors. Together this information demonstrates the biblical incompatibility of Freemasonry.)

Mike
Why is it you post Rital and Monitors as Masonic Documents than you say you back it up with Masonic Authors.

This makes no sence Mike. First you tell me that I can not use outside sources to prove Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity. But then you use Out side Sourse to try to prove it is not compatiable with Christianity.

You Sir can not have it both ways. I should have the same right as you do in the refrences.

First Dr. Gary Leazer wrote a Book called Fundimentalism and Freemasonry which is recomended reading by the Grand Lodge and it states the Lion of the Tribe of Judah is in Freemasonry and that it is Jesus Christ.

Second Masonic Bible sometimes given out by the Grand Lodge. It states Jesus Christ is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah in Freemasonry.

I have posted refrences from Masonic Monitors from Tennessee and Ohio which give refrence to Christ from God in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity, Lion of the Tribe of Judah and the Star that shined above Bethlehem which pointed out the Place of our Saviors Birth.

Yes according to my Pastor Freemasonry is a Religion by His defintion and that is Religion is taking care of Widows and Orphans not worship while Christianity is about having a Relationship with God.

Religion can mean so many things. If a person lives by a set rules that has nothing to do with worship it is considered His religion.

Majority of Freemasons are Christian because it was a Christian only Frat to begin. So it makes sense that its teachings comes from Christainity.

 

Teaching from Freemasonry uses the following Scripture:

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

 

And simply because you state that Freemasonry is a religion equally does not mean that it is. There are plenty of Freemasons that are Christians that state that it is not a religion and websites like Ministry of Masons that are run by Christians that are Masons. http://pub16.ezboard.com/bmomministryofmasons

Lets be well clear that the Baptist Boards are a Public Board, you are not "We". It has equally been proved back to you that Freemasonry is not a religion and is compatible with the teachings of the Bible. Maybe you need to accept that and leave it in the Lords hands?

 

Part of the SBC report from 1993

I have seen part of this at Anti-Masonic Websites the parts that the SBC had issues with, But I do not ever remember seeing this on any Anti-Masonic Website.

(We recognize

That many of the tenets and teachings of some Grand Lodges could be considered compatible with, and even supportive of, Christian faith and practice, such as the strong emphasis on honesty, integrity, industry, and character and the insistence that every member believe in God. Some Grand Lodges have written into their monitors, guidelines, and rituals explicit references to Christian faith, including exact quotes from the Bible, such as in the ritual constituting a new lodge in the Monitor of the Lodge of the Grand Lodge of Texas:

I now solemnly consecrate this lodge to the honor and glory of Jehovah, the Grand Architect of the Universe.2

Or the explicit reference to Jesus in the Masonic Code of the Grand Lodge of Alabama:

It is therefore proper and in accordance with Masonic law and tenets for a Mason who believes in the Christ Jesus to offer prayers in the Lodge in His Name.3

Or the ceremony for laying a cornerstone found in The Murrow Masonic Monitor of the Grand Lodge of Oklahoma:

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay, than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.4

Or the ceremony of the extinguishing of the lights, a Scottish Rite ceremony held on Maundy Thursday:

My Brethren, this is the anniversary of that Last Supper of which Jesus of Nazareth partook with His humble disciples, after which He was betrayed and crucified.

Who, of any creed, can picture to himself, unmoved, that noble and sweet countenance, which never looked on anything in anger, pale with agony, and streaming with tears? His back was torn by the lash, His brow pierced by the thorns. He suffered, willingly, until it seemed, even to Him, that His God and Father had forsaken Him.

And yet, even then, bruised, hanged upon a cross, betrayed by one He loved, suffering and, for a moment, questioning, He still calls down not curses by blessings and a prayer for forgiveness upon those who had so treated Him.5

Or that found in the Scottish Rite 18th degree:

Wherein they [older forms of religion] were deficient [Masonry] found in the New Law of Love, preached by Jesus of Nazareth, and which He sealed with His blood.6

Or the strong affirmation of the Bible found in the North Carolina Lodge Manual:

The Holy Bible is given us as the rule and guide of faith . . . the Bible is the light which enlightens the path of our duty to God.7

Or that found in the Louisiana Masonic Monitor:

However they may differ in creed or theology, all good men are agreed that within the covers of the Holy Bible are found those principles of morality which lay the foundation upon which to build a righteous life. . . . It is the one volume which has lived in the hearts of the people, molding and shaping their destinies; and it leads the way to Him who is the Light of the world.8

Or the words of the chaplain in the funeral service found in the Masonic Manual of the Grand Lodge of Georgia:

I am the resurrection and the life, saith the Lord. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.9

To be sure, not all Grand Lodges affirm Christian doctrine, and many do not declare Jesus as the unique Son of God; but many do, and for this we commend them. There is not complete uniformity in tenets or practice among lodges.

That many tenets and teachings of Freemasonry are not compatible with Christianity or Southern Baptist doctrine, including:

1. The prevalent use of offensive concepts, titles, and terms such as Worshipful Master for the leader of a lodge; references to their buildings as mosques, shrines, or temples; and the use of words such as Abaddon and Jah-Bul-On, the so-called secret name of God. To many, these terms are not only offensive but sacrilegious.

2. The use of archaic, offensive rituals and so-called bloody oaths or obligations, among these being that promised by the Entered Apprentice:

All this I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, . . . binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear, my tongue torn out by its roots, and buried in the sands of the sea, at low water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-five hours, should I, in the least, knowingly or wittingly violate or transgress this my Entered Apprentice obligation.10

Or that of the Fellow Craft degree:

All this I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, . . . binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my left breast torn open, my heart plucked from thence, and given to the beast of the field and the birds of the air as prey, should I, in the least, knowingly or wittingly, violate or transgress this my Fellow Craft obligations.11

Or that of the Master Mason:

All this I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, . . . binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my body severed in two, . . .my bowels torn from thence and burned to ashes, and these scattered before the four winds of heaven, that no more remembrance might be had among men or Masons of so vile a wretch as I should be, should I, in the least, knowingly or wittingly violate or transgress this my Master Mason obligation. So help me God and keep me steadfast.12

Or that of other advanced degrees with required rituals considered by many to be pagan and incompatible with Christian faith and practice.

Even though these oaths, obligations, and rituals may or may not be taken seriously by the initiate, it is inappropriate for a Christian to sincerely promise and swear, with a hand on the Holy Bible, any such promises or oaths, or to participate in any such pagan rituals.

3. The recommended readings, in pursuance of advanced degrees, of religions and philosophies, which are undeniably pagan and/or occultic, such as much of the writings of Albert Pike, Albert Mackey, Manly Hall, Rex Hutchins, W.L. Wilmshurst, and other such authors; along with their works, such as Morals and Dogma, A Bridge to Light, An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, and The Meaning of Masonry.

4. The reference to the Bible placed on the altar of the lodge as the furniture of the lodge, comparing it to the square and compass rather than giving it the supreme place in the lodge.13

5. The prevalent use of the term Alight, which some may understand as a reference to salvation rather than knowledge or truth.

6. The implication that salvation may be attained by one's good works, implicit in the statement found in some Masonic writings that Masonry is continually reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is necessary to obtain admittance into the Celestial Lodge above where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.14 Even though many Masons understand that the purity of life and conduct can only be achieved through faith in Jesus Christ, others may be led to believe they can earn salvation by living a pure life with good conduct.

7. The heresy of universalism (the belief all people will eventually be saved), which permeates the writings of many Masonic authors, which is a doctrine inconsistent with New Testament teaching.15

8. The refusal of most lodges (although not all) to admit for membership African-Americans.)


What You see on the Anti-Masonic Websites.

(That many tenets and teachings of Freemasonry are not compatible with Christianity or Southern Baptist doctrine, including:

1. The prevalent use of offensive concepts, titles, and terms such as Worshipful Master for the leader of a lodge; references to their buildings as mosques, shrines, or temples; and the use of words such as Abaddon and Jah-Bul-On, the so-called secret name of God. To many, these terms are not only offensive but sacrilegious.

2. The use of archaic, offensive rituals and so-called bloody oaths or obligations, among these being that promised by the Entered Apprentice:

All this I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, . . . binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear, my tongue torn out by its roots, and buried in the sands of the sea, at low water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-five hours, should I, in the least, knowingly or wittingly violate or transgress this my Entered Apprentice obligation.10

Or that of the Fellow Craft degree:

All this I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, . . . binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my left breast torn open, my heart plucked from thence, and given to the beast of the field and the birds of the air as prey, should I, in the least, knowingly or wittingly, violate or transgress this my Fellow Craft obligations.11

Or that of the Master Mason:

All this I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, . . . binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my body severed in two, . . .my bowels torn from thence and burned to ashes, and these scattered before the four winds of heaven, that no more remembrance might be had among men or Masons of so vile a wretch as I should be, should I, in the least, knowingly or wittingly violate or transgress this my Master Mason obligation. So help me God and keep me steadfast.12

Or that of other advanced degrees with required rituals considered by many to be pagan and incompatible with Christian faith and practice.

Even though these oaths, obligations, and rituals may or may not be taken seriously by the initiate, it is inappropriate for a Christian to sincerely promise and swear, with a hand on the Holy Bible, any such promises or oaths, or to participate in any such pagan rituals.

3. The recommended readings, in pursuance of advanced degrees, of religions and philosophies, which are undeniably pagan and/or occultic, such as much of the writings of Albert Pike, Albert Mackey, Manly Hall, Rex Hutchins, W.L. Wilmshurst, and other such authors; along with their works, such as Morals and Dogma, A Bridge to Light, An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, and The Meaning of Masonry.

4. The reference to the Bible placed on the altar of the lodge as the furniture of the lodge, comparing it to the square and compass rather than giving it the supreme place in the lodge.13

5. The prevalent use of the term Alight, which some may understand as a reference to salvation rather than knowledge or truth.

6. The implication that salvation may be attained by one's good works, implicit in the statement found in some Masonic writings that Masonry is continually reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is necessary to obtain admittance into the Celestial Lodge above where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.14 Even though many Masons understand that the purity of life and conduct can only be achieved through faith in Jesus Christ, others may be led to believe they can earn salvation by living a pure life with good conduct.

7. The heresy of universalism (the belief all people will eventually be saved), which permeates the writings of many Masonic authors, which is a doctrine inconsistent with New Testament teaching.15

8. The refusal of most lodges (although not all) to admit for membership African-Americans.)

 

(But this religion of Masonry, like all else in its teaching, is not set forth in written creeds, or in any other form of words; the Mason must come upon it for himself, and put it in such form as will satisfy his own mind, leaving others to do likewise.)

Well Mike I am sure the is more than these PARAGRAPHS to these Booklets. But never the less it seems to say in the above that Freemaosnry has no religion but that which each Mason brings into It.

(Just as we saw that the religion of Masonry is that common ground which underlies all religious parties, so is this good citizenship the common ground under all political parties.)

Seems to say there is a common ground on which everyone can agree Brotherly Love being that comon ground.

As far as religion and Politics in the Lodge I have heard it debated over and over again. It is only forbidden when the Lodge is open for Business other than that many Churches meet in Lodge Halls. I think one of the Biggest Churches in Texas, The First Baptist Church, Dallas, Texas was started in a Masonic Lodge. So Mike you wrong only in an open Lodge is it asked that no one debate Religion and Politics because nothing would get done.

As far as the rest. Mike you said you can not use documents outside of the Grnad Lodges But never the less you need to present the rest of the pages not just the paragraphs that suits you.

As far as Christ being Present with the Hindu and Muslim. The Law of God is written on everymans Heart. At one point or the every person will accept or reject Christ.

Now Mike if you would like to present futher proof than explain what the SBC said about Christ in the Lodge from the Masonic Manuals.

Mike you only present oneside of the issue. I presented both what the SBC said it liked and Disliked because I want the Whole truth out there not just what suits me. You however do not you present what can be taken out of context and you do not present the rest of the Paragraphs that go with the LSME.

You tell me I can not use anything but Grand Lodge sources Because I used the Masonic Bible which clearly spoke of Christ and the Savior. But you turn around and use material that is not of Grand Lodge source because it promotes your cuase.

Please Explain why you can use the resources and I can not.

 

I forgot to mention that each Year Masons come together to visit a Chruch on Holy Saints John Day. And also there is a Sunrise survice in the Lodge on Easter where the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is proclaimed and preached to all who attended.

From Gary Leazer

(The phrase Great Architect of the Universe came into Freemasonry as early as 1723, according to Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, when it appeared in James Anderson's Book of Constitutions. Anderson, a Scottish Presbyterian minister in London, did not invent the phrase. It was repeatedly used by Reformed theologian John Calvin (1509-1564). "In his Commentary on Psalm 19, Calvin states the heavens 'were wonderfully founded by the Great Architect.' Again, according to the same paragraph, Calvin writes 'when once we recognize God as the Architect of the Universe, we are bound to marvel at his Wisdom, Strength, and Goodness.' In fact, Calvin repeatedly calls God 'the Architect of the Universe' and refers to his works in nature as 'Architecture of the Universe' 10 times in the Institutes of the Christian Religion alone" (Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, p. 516). If we accept the logic of Masonic critics, then Calvin must have believed the God revealed in the Psalms and elsewhere in the Bible is a false god. This, of course, is absurd, as are all of the Masonic critics' arguments.)

 

What does Freemasonry say it is?

It says implicitley that it is not a religion.

 

What do any wolves in sheep's clothing say they are?

 

(What do any wolves in sheep's clothing say they are?)

That wasn't very nice. How about some info to back it up.

 

I for one am not beyond denouncing something I feel is intent on pulling people away from the truth. I'm not convinced Freemasonry is one of those things. Most of the "evidence" I've heard comes directly from a book that was written in the mid-19th century and was written for political reasons to promote the old "Know-nothing" (so named because they claimed they "knew nothing of freemasonry" I believe) political party.

 

My statement was concerning Masons, but it was not limited to Masons. Any group of wolves would claim to be sheep. We can't judge a group by what they claim to be.

As far as info to back it up, this thread has tons of it. I posted one piece of evidence on one of the earlier pages.

 

Eladar
What about what I posted from the SBC study showing Christ in Freemaosnry.

 

There are people who claim to find Christ in all sorts of places, even other religions. There are those who claim that relgions are just different spokes of the same wheel with God at the center.

If one is dealing with half truths, it is easy to point to the half that is true and say 'see what it says is true', while ignoring the other half that will lead to destruction.

 

Freemasonry is not a Christian Frat altuo in the beginning it was Christian only. When speaking about the GAOTU the name Jehovah was used. Jews than joined the Lodge since they can not same the name of God. The name God was applied than due to John Calvin calling Jehovah Arciteict of the Universe, a presbaterien minister Anderson used GAOTU. The teachings of Freemaosnry come from the Bible becase it is the Great Light of Masonry. Thru its teachings of Morality and Brotherly love are the Lessions of Freemasonry taught. Christ is quoted thru out Freemaosnry because it is from Him we get the Supreme example of Morality and Brotherly Love. When the The Masonic monitors speak of God, or GAOTU it speaks of Jehovah. But you do not have to believe in Jehovah or Christ as you once had to in order to join Freemasonry. Sweeden Freemasory is still Christian only. You must be a Christian to Join.


The Problem with Freemaosnry is that the words it uses can so easily be taken out of context such as the Lamb Skin Lecture to mean a Works Salvation. Even the SBC said it could be taken out of context easily and that is why they did not like it. Not because of what it said but because it could be taken the wrong way. Grand Lodges state that Freemaosnry and Good works can not get you into Heaven.