Gay Christians?

[Calminian]

I'm a biromantic asexual, so fairly familiar. I'm in groups with other gay/bi Christians (one of the groups is side B, the other allows it's members to be side B and their official stance is that is a legitimate position to hold), and have been able to gain some insight from there. I've been in LGBT spaces for years as well.
One big thing with side B is that we don't vouch for conversion therapy..

questdriven, you say that homosexual, bisexual is merely a description of one's attractions, but not their actions. Thus one can be rightfully be called a gay Christian, homosexual Christian, bisexual Christian etc., so long as they don't act on their desires.

But is this the way God uses the term and wants the term used?

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals. (Mounce)​

Is God here (through Paul) saying that anyone who has homosexual attractions will not inherit heaven? I don't think so. I believe there are people who struggle with these attractions, and put them out of their minds and have victory. These, therefore, should rightly be called former homosexuals, in that they've forsaken that lifestyle for the Gospel.

My fear is that you're encouraging people to hold onto the homosexual bisexual label giving it existential power over them. My fear is you're doing this to yourself. I don't think this tactic jives with the Gospel message. You mean well. You believe you're reaching people, but I wondering if your'e merely appeasing them and stopping them from fully renouncing homosexuality.

 

[Revmitchell]

No such thing as gay Chtistian

 

[Particular]

There are four Christians who would be the best to speak on this subject.
Christopher Yuan, Rosaria Butterfield, Sam Allberry and Jackie Hill Perry .

 

[Revmitchell]

Scripture is best to speak on it

 

[Particular]

Scripture is best to speak on it

Four Godly people speaking scripture. Listen to them.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Those of us who are side B usually call ourselves celibate gays to set ourselves apart. That is if we don't explain that we are side B.
If orientation is defined by actions, then a heck of a lot of gay men are straight or at least bi, because many do marry women (due to societal expectations) before they realize they aren't attracted to women. (Some don't realize they are gay until they are in their 30's or 40's, due to not wanting to admit it to themselves.) Therefore I will continue to define it by the attractions one experiences.
There are a few in the side B group, while side B doesn't believe that calling ourselves gay is wrong, who do prefer to say "same sex attracted". (The main thing that sets side B apart from side X is we don't believe in conversion therapy, we believe conversion therapy is bad for mental health, and we don't believe our orientation will--in most cases--change.)

I believe my experience as a bi person is actually a good thing for witness--the LGBT community is very, extremely, opposed to side X. My experience is that side B also gets A LOT of flack, but seeing as many of us are involved in the LGBT community to some capacity or another, we at least attempt to plant seeds.

Edit: But for the record I identify moreso as an asexual than anything. This is largely because I am not out to family and irl friends, and never plan to be. There's too much for me to potentially lose if I did let that out. I'm only out online, in spaces where my family and friends either will never find me, or most likely won't go looking.

Regarding orientation change, I liken it to those who are delivered by God from addiction and never feel the cravings again. You know, those conversion stories. But the reality is that most addicts don't get that experience. Most still struggle with their addiction and with recovery, and they have to fight their tendency toward addiction for their entire lives. They may get out of that rut with God's help and grace, but they can't touch alcohol again without falling back into relapse. That's the reality they face, even as born again believers.
Most who experience same sex attraction and get saved will not experience an orientation change. Of course God CAN take that away--but most of the time He doesn't seem to

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[evenifigoalone]

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals. (Mounce)​

The Greek word used in the verse literally translates to "male bedders", which suggests one that is actually having sex with men, rather than one who calls himself gay or homosexual

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[Calminian]

Four Godly people speaking scripture. Listen to them.

Annnnnnnd who exactly made you determining agent regarding who should be listened to and who shouldn't?

 

[Reformed1689]

Why would you want to identify yourself with your sin? Should one be called a:

1. Lying Christian
2. Lustful Christian
3. Angry Christian
4. Etc....

 

[Calminian]

The Greek word used in the verse literally translates to "male bedders", which suggests one that is actually having sex with men, rather than one who calls himself gay or homosexual.

Actually, that's why I quoted Mounce Reverse-Interlinear. I figured a greek scholar (though all translations are from scholars) could be trusted to render this passage correctly. Care to tell me why you think Mounce is wrong?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Why would you want to identify yourself with your sin? Should one be called a:

1. Lying Christian
2. Lustful Christian
3. Angry Christian
4. Etc....

I'm a recovered addict. If I were still under the bondage of addiction, I would absolutely refer to myself as an addict. I am quite loud and passionate about my status as a recovered addict--that is because it gives me a platform from which to educate people.
I see me being LGBT the same

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[Reynolds]

No such thing as gay Chtistian

I would have to disagree.

 

[Calminian]

Those of us who are side B usually call ourselves celibate gays to set ourselves apart. That is if we don't explain that we are side B.
If orientation is defined by actions, then a heck of a lot of gay men are straight or at least bi, because many do marry women (due to societal expectations) before they realize they aren't attracted to women. (Some don't realize they are gay until they are in their 30's or 40's, due to not wanting to admit it to themselves.) Therefore I will continue to define it by the attractions one experiences.

But what is your justification for allowing "orientation" to define someone? Scripture doesn't do this, Paul doesn't do this, Christ doesn't do this. Why would it be wise to follow you on this?

There are a few in the side B group, while side B doesn't believe that calling ourselves gay is wrong, who do prefer to say "same sex attracted". (The main thing that sets side B apart from side X is we don't believe in conversion therapy, we believe conversion therapy is bad for mental health, and we don't believe our orientation will--in most cases--change.)

So you don't believe in conversions period? You don't believe Christ radically changes individuals? edit: never mind you answered this below.

I believe my experience as a bi person is actually a good thing for witness--the LGBT community is very, extremely, opposed to side X. My experience is that side B also gets A LOT of flack, but seeing as many of us are involved in the LGBT community to some capacity or another, we at least attempt to plant seeds.

What exactly is your message to these individuals?

Edit: But for the record I identify moreso as an asexual than anything. This is largely because I am not out to family and irl friends, and never plan to be. There's too much for me to potentially lose if I did let that out. I'm only out online, in spaces where my family and friends either will never find me, or most likely won't go looking.

That's fine. I don't know that it's important that everyone knows your every inner thought. It's okay to keeps your confessions of struggles limited, if you so choose.

Regarding orientation change, I liken it to those who are delivered by God from addiction and never feel the cravings again. You know, those conversion stories. But the reality is that most addicts don't get that experience. Most still struggle with their addiction and with recovery, and they have to fight their tendency toward addiction for their entire lives. They may get out of that rut with God's help and grace, but they can't touch alcohol again without falling back into relapse. That's the reality they face, even as born again believers.
Most who experience same sex attraction and get saved will not experience an orientation change. Of course God CAN take that away--but most of the time He doesn't seem to

This may or may not be true, and somewhat irrelevant, but curious, where do you get your stats from?

 

[Reformed1689]

I'm a recovered addict. If I were still under the bondage of addiction, I would absolutely refer to myself as an addict. I am quite loud and passionate about my status as a recovered addict--that is because it gives me a platform from which to educate people.
I see me being LGBT the same

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So you make your sin your identity rather than Christ? You shouldn't say "Hi, my name is and I'm a recovered addict" You should say, My name is xxxxxx a Christian saved by grace! And why on earth would you identify with the LGBT?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Actually, that's why I quoted Mounce Reverse-Interlinear. I figured a greek scholar (though all translations are from scholars) could be trusted to render this passage correctly. Care to tell me why you think Mounce is wrong?

While I am not a Bible scholar, what I have been able to look up says that the literal translation is male bedders. Homosexual is, by a semi educated guess, still an accurate rendering since not all make the attraction distinction in their common usage

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[Particular]

Annnnnnnd who exactly made you determining agent regarding who should be listened to and who shouldn't?

Are you afraid to listen to four Godly people as they share about God's redeeming work in their lives?
I guarantee you will be blessed by what they have to say.

 

[Calminian]

Are you afraid to listen to four Godly people as they share about God's redeeming work in their lives?
I guarantee you will be blessed by what they have to say.

Are you afraid to explain why these individuals are the "best" to listen to?

 

[Calminian]

While I am not a Bible scholar, what I have been able to look up says that the literal translation is male bedders. Homosexual is, by a semi educated guess, still an accurate rendering since not all make the attraction distinction in their common usage

Great. Glad we got that out of the way.

 

[evenifigoalone]

But what is your justification for allowing "orientation" to define someone? Scripture doesn't do this, Paul doesn't do this, Christ doesn't do this. Why would it be wise to follow you on this?

As I said in an above post, I do to a degree let my recovered addict status define me because it gives me a platform where I can educate people--same reasoning applies here.

What exactly is your message to these individuals?

My main concern is conversion. After that, they can work on getting rid of their problem areas. But specifically, side B believes gay people are called to celibacy--though some still opt to have straight marriages even though they aren't attracted to the opposite sex. (These are called mixed orientation marriages, or MOMs.)

This may or may not be true. Where do you get your stats from?

Admittedly it's mostly anecdotal, gathered from talking to lots of different people and hearing their experiences

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[evenifigoalone]

So you make your sin your identity rather than Christ? You shouldn't say "Hi, my name is and I'm a recovered addict" You should say, My name is xxxxxx a Christian saved by grace! And why on earth would you identify with the LGBT?

I can't explain it to you much more clearly than I already have. If that doesn't satisfy you, then oh well. No skin off my nose

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