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Featured General Redemption.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Apr 19, 2021.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I believe in a general redemption. I also understand redemption is particular when it comes to being saved. Now the Puritan John Owen in his book, The Death of Death in the Death of Christ, makes a near exhaustive case against the notion of general redemption. But they are not concise but long arguments. This work needs nevertheless to be understood, it is that important. I am not done studying this work.
     
    #1 37818, Apr 19, 2021
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    There is a small paperback , might even be available online.
    Redemption,Accomplished, and a Applied....by John Murray that.might of help your study.

    http://www.gbcroc.org/Outlines/Redemption_Accomplished_and_Applied_John_Murray.pdf
     
    #2 Iconoclast, Apr 19, 2021
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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Part I: Redemption Accomplished
    Redemption Accomplished and Applied
    Chapter 1: The Necessity of the Atonement The Source of the Atonement
    The Reason or Necessity of the Atonement
    Chapter 2: The Nature of the Atonement
    A Comprehensive Category for the Atonement
    John Murray
    Two Distinct Aspects of the Lord’s vicarious obedience Categories of the Atonement Application
    Chapter 3: The Perfection of the Atonement Arguments against Roman imperfect atonement Features of the finished work of Christ
    Chapter 4: The Extent of the Atonement For whom did Christ make atonement? On whose behalf did Christ offer Himself a sacrifice? The Doctrine of Limited or Definite Atonement defended The Doctrine of Limited or Definite Atonement attacked
    Chapter 5: Conclusion
    The Bible is the one source and norm for the Atonement.
    The existence of temptation to bring the Atonement in terms of our human experiences. The lost will eternally suffer in the satisfaction of justice. Perish the thought that “there is a Gethsemane hid in all love’ It is the spectacle of Gethsemane and Calvary
    Part II: Redemption Applied
    Chapter 1: The Order of Application God’s Provision Fruits of Redemption The Order of Redemption
    Chapter 2: Effectual Calling Types of Calls
    Distinctions of Effectual Calling
    Chapter 3: Regeneration The Call Answered
    Chapter 4: Faith and Repentance Regeneration inseparable from its effects Faith Repentance
    1
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    There are some serious problems with that article.

    "How can one dead in trespasses and sins answer of the Call of God?"

    The word of God is living, Hebrews 4:12. And it's hearing gives faith, Romans 10:17.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    How did Lazarus, who was physically dead, answer the call of God?

    Is anything too hard for God?
     
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  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The Spirit of God gives a new heart that can hear and welcome Divine truth.
     
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  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Only after faith. Romans 1:16.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Before faith.
    Hebrews 12:2
    Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

    Romans 1:16 says nothing about faith coming first. In fact it confirms God first, faith second.

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
     
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  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Particular Redemption aka Limited Atonement.
    General Redemption aka Unlimited Atonement.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    thanks, thought that you might be meaning general ion the sense that all will get the resurrection now, just some to heaven and others to hell!
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Acts of the Apostles 16:31, ". . . Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, . . ."
    Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; . . ."
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Saving faith is a gift from God. Men do not have it.

    General Redemption....could you define that?

    Is it actual redemption?

    Does it Redeem?

    Or only potential?

    Who are the objects?
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    These verses do not address the issue in question. They are not saying what you think they are.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    "37818,

    This is a definite work of God. It saves a multitude of sinners who the Father has given to the Son.
    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me;
    and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    Can you explain your view of this"general atonement, in light of jn 6:37?
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I think it is based on what you are wrestling with...that is what we are exploring.
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is an interpertation. That is no where so stated in the word of God.

    General Redemption....could you define that?John Owen's term.

    Is it actual redemption? Yes per 1 John 2:2, which John Owen denies has that meaning.

    Does it Redeem? Does Christ redeem?

    Or only potential? Was for only those who never accept Christ.

    Who are the objects? The whole world per 1 John 2:2.
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Could you answer in detail post 15,and 17...thanks
     
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