Gift of Prophecy

Magicdar, you are wrong and you obviously made your comment without reading the rest of the posts on the subject. Tongues were a real gift from the day of Pentecost until the fall of Isreal, that is what the Bible says. If you chose to use tongues in your private prayer time you are perverting the real use of that gift. The gift was only meant to edify the whole body as were all the gifts. (1 cor. 12:7). Anyone who uses tongues in private today is misusing a gift that is not in operation and that is a double mistake. Also read an earlier post I did on the true operation of tongues in the early church.

 

Briguy, If there is one thing I am sure of, it is tounges. The bible says in 1 Cor. 14:28 that if there are no interpreters then the person should speak to God or himself, my prayer language (tounges) is in no way shape or form perverted or incorrect. Also,you need to provide scripture to back up the tounges went out the door with the fall because in Cor. it says something very different. 1Cor. 12:4,5&6 the gifts were meant for all men and that certainly does not exclude us, not to mention it also says not to forbid speaking in tounges.

I am cool with you disagreeing with me, heck my own parents disagree with me on this issue, but I still very much believe in it and use it to glorify God. Thanks -dar

 

M, Look at all the "gifts" that are listed. Which other one is meant to self-edify? None. Spiritual gifts are to edify the body of Christ not oneself (1 Cor. 12:7). Please read that scripture it is very clear. Tongues was a real gift and in 50 or so AD when 1 Cor. was written the proper gift used the proper way should not have been forbid. You don't forbid a surgeon to operate on a live person but you would on a dead person. Had 1 Cor. been written in 80AD the message would be different. The gift of tongues was a way to speak to people in a language they could understand NOT talk to God in a language YOU don't understand. Who interprets your tongues to edify the body by the way, that is what is supposed to happen. The speak to yourself that Paul mentions is just praying to yourself and nothing more, simple talking to God in your native tongue. Please don't think I am sounding mean as I write this, i am a very nice guy I just hate to see people confused and decieved by this issue. Keep reading 1cor 12-14 and you will see the point. Read the Isaiah reference from 1 cor 14 as well. Keep searching!!!

 

B- 1Cor. 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tounge does not speak to men but to God. Indeed no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. // This scripture would explain that we do not use tounges for people but to pray to God in with our spirit. Verse 4 speaks of edifying oneself with praying in tounges alone meaning that edification of your personal walk with God, this edification is not wrong it just simply means your not edifying the entire body of Christ but your personal walk with God in the stead.

In answer to your question. Yes, the only time I've heard anyone get up in my church and speak in tounges there was also an interpretor imediately following and it went along with what was happening in the service.

Tounges are not just a different language of another country but an unknown language of praying in your spirit to God. There are two different types, one to edify your walk, and one that is interpreted to the body.

This gift along with healing has not left us in any way or form, we just choose to not use it. Yes I do believe in healing very much. -dar

 

M, you never address my points you just bring up new ones. When Paul wrote about uttering mysteries and tongues self-edifing he was rebuking those who were doing that. That is why he followed up those thoughts with the mind being unfruitful idea and the battle sound example. M, 1 cor. is a book of rebuking bad things going on in Corinth. The pagans utter mysteries in estaic languages not the christians and thats what Paul was telling them and is telling you. God wants you and all of us to talk to him directly the way we talk everyday and that is the way Jesus and everyother person in the Bible did it. Biblical Gift of healing? is that what you are talking about still being in operation? Please tell me you don't believe that. God heals today when he choses, I believe that totally but the Gift is gone with the early church. You must know that though.

 

B, Cor. is a book of rebukes but Paul was not telling them not to do these things, he was rebuking them for doing them improperly, but then he went on to give instruction on how to use the gifts the way they were intended. I'm not sure what points you made that you want me to address that I haven't already addressed. Healing is so much a gift today, in fact when Jesus sent out his disciples one of his commands to them was to go lay hands on the sick for them to be healed, so this I find truely wild that anyone would
disagree with that. Yes it is Jesus who
heals not us, but Jesus does work thru us to heal.

Back to the tounges issue. Paul rebukes then instructs on how to speak in tounges and the proper priorities the gifts should have.This is why in verse 5 of 1Cor. 14 it says "I would like every one of you to speak in tounges but I would rather have you prophesy.
He who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tounges unless he interprets so that the church is edified. He was simply telling them what is greater and what is lesser but not to discontinue doing them. Tounges are very much a lesser gift, but certainly not a ceased gift.

 

M, Please address the point that gifts are not self-edifying(1 cor. 12:7). Speaking in tongues was a good thing when it saved souls because they could here the Gospel, and Paul makes the point it is good when used right, don't read more into that statement about everyone doing it then is really there. Tongues were a sign!! Did you read the chapter in Isaiah that Paul references. All signs point to something and when what they are pointing to comes the sign is no longer needed. Isreal fell and that what tongues were pointing to. No need for the sign after that. M, sadly it seems you want to trade an emotional high for sound doctrine, please don't do that. "Spiritual Gifts from God are inside us and for us to use when we desire, that is why we know that the gift of healing is gone because if someone had it they would be going from hospital to hospital healing the ALL the sick and preaching the gospel as Peter and Paul did. I will pray for you to have a deeper understanding of "gifts".

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Briguy:
...All signs point to something and when what they are pointing to comes the sign is no longer needed. Isreal fell and that what tongues were pointing to. No need for the sign after that...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Briguy,
Why do you think that 70 A.D. is necessarily THE cut-off point? Many cessationists think that the closing of the canon of Scripture was the cut-off point. See earlier post in this thread by Dr. Cassidy.

Karen

[ June 27, 2001: Message edited by: Karen ]

 

B, The point that I suppose you haven't recieved yet is that I do have a deeper understanding of the gifts. I still have yet to see scripture on your part to proove what you are trying to say about the fall being the end point of tounges.

We could probably go on and on with this subject, but simply put, the reason I believe what I believe is I base it on scripture and the conviction of the spirit of God in my life. I continue to pray about this, and still find no area where my beliefs are incorrect with scripture so until then my friend we will have different views....but thats cool we have Jesus in common anyway. -dar

 

Saggy, I believe the gift of prophesy is still in working order. My husband has recieved at least 4-5 prophesies by different people at different times who have all spoken the same thing over him. God has also placed these things in his heart a long time ago as well as given him the same dream confirming the prophesy over him several times now.....wow God has alot of plans for him and there is a process to go thru as well. -dar

 

Md, It has been explained in this thread that Prophecy means "To speak before" not before it happens but before others. Fortune telling in the modern age was and is for the pagans.

70 AD - I have to accept from historians that this was when the Jews were scattered and their land taken. God warned them with "Men of Strange Tongues". He did it in the OT and did it in the NT. When the fall happened then God's warning sign was not needed.

M, We can agree to disagree and that is fine.
I care about people who are getting a spiritual high from the wrong spirit and that is why I go on and on.

One final thing,Please comment on 1 cor 12:7 and self edifying gifts. Don't deny God's word. I have had a Biblical answer for your questions now it is your turn. M, you didn't comment on my healing question either, I hope you do. Spiritual gifts are a stumbling block for many christians who don't understand that the gift is given to us and is in us. We do not need a power up from God to use our gift ( I will explain that better if that sounded way out there)

 

B, God will not provide a "wrong" spirit when he is asked to provide the truth, I prayed for the truth on this matter before I recieved it so I know this is not the wrong spirit.

I am failing to make the connection of what you are looking for from me in explaination of 1Cor.12:7....Now to each one the manifestation of the spirit is given for the common good. How does this relate to your question of self edification gifts?

I did in fact speak on healing, I suppose you didn't read it but thats ok. I do believe in healing and as a gift as 1Cor. 12:9 speaks of and as Jesus told the disciples to go lay hands on the sick for them to be healed in Jesus name.

Jesus said faith was the key for what you ask. If you have faith, not that you can heal, but that Jesus can and will heal then all you need to do is pray for healing and sometimes healing happens instantly, and other times there is a process of time.

One night my husband and I were laying in bed and I was experiencing severe abdominal pain, I didn't have medication for it, but knew what it was so my husband placed his hand on my stomache and prayed in Jesus name that Jesus would touch my pain and release healing to me, within 10 minutes I literally felt the pain dimolished and was able to sleep, we of course thanked God for his touch and I slept great that night.

We had a little girl in our church testify about a healing that happened to her that was so amazing...she and her mom were in NYC at a mall when the little girl got her foot caught in an escalator, as it sucked her foot in it began to crush her foot to the point where the feeling was gone. In a panic her mom couldn't stop the escalator from moving so she held her daughters hand, looked her in the eye and said, "Sweetie, remember what you learned that Jesus is with you all the time and helping you, well now is a time where Jesus is with you", she asked her daughter if she believed Jesus was there with her and she said yes in a wimpering voice. The paramedics arrived and found her foot crushed and the color drained so they placed her in the truck and headed for the hospital. During the ride to the hospital, the mother and little girl prayed that Jesus would heal her foot and by the time they got to the hospital they examined her foot and not only were there no bones broken in her foot but there was also no swelling and the color fully returned and imediately she was released to go back home.

Her foot had been stuck in the step so far in that the mother was informed if she had tried to pull on her child's foot that she would have totally ripped her foot up beyond repair....I don't share this to proove a point that healing is for today, but to say Praise Jesus that a little girl could believe so much in his healing and love her that she had no other thoughts in her mind but Jesus.

-dar

 

M, Praise God for those healings, that is direct answer to prayer and is awesome. That however has nothing to do with the spiritual gift of healing. When you have that gift you can heal as you choose to heal, the power is within. Since no one can do that today we know that "gift" is gone. We can and should ask God for healings and help at all times. What I was getting at by 1 Cor. 12:7 is for you to see that you are using a spiritual gift for your own good and not for the good of others as it was intended. Even if it was for today you would be using it wrong and Paul warned Corinth and you to use it properly. Anyway, maybe we can discuss it with Paul in heaven some day and then you will see that I was right. Ha Ha.
Remember this one thing Spiritual gifts arte in us and we choose when to use them and to use them right it must edify the body. Take care sister.

 

B, no the gift of healing is not in us, it is in Jesus, Jesus just gave us authority to heal in his name and that is still active today, I know I've experienced it myself.

We are going to disagree with the self edification issue, self edification is not wrong according to Cor. tounges are intended for edifying the church as well as your personal walk with God and that is clearly written there. It is what Paul was talking about as a good thing, but the lesser of gifts is what he was trying to point out.

-dar

 

M, You are right, today Jesus heals when he decides sometimes in direct response to prayer sometimes even when we don't pray and sometime there is no healing at all. I have a friend with Luekemia who became a Christian since being diognosed, I pray for a healing for him daily and am confident that Jesus can heal him. I don't know the future and don't know if God will intervene or not. The gift of healing and all spiritual gifts from God he has given us the freedom to use when WE want. Think of the gift of goverment(administrations) that gift that certain people have to make decisions about church functions and property, etc.... They don't have to keep praying to use the gift. They have it in them and they use it freely. Since all gifts operate the same, ther is no reason or scripture to say they don't then it is that way for all gifts. Peter's shadow healed people now that is an awesome gift but not one given out today. M, I acre about you and hope you see that you have to manipulate scripture to fit your position which reall is to fit something you started doing before you knew the Bible. (Don't ask why I know that I just do)
KEEP SEEKING!!!!

 

Briguy, uhhh no actually I've never manipulated scripture to fit my position. Actually I never tried talking to anyone about issues before I knew what the bible had to say so I'm not sure what you feel you know, but you are wrong. I have in the past and still stay away from debating subjects that I'm not clear where scripture stands on them.

I can tell you we will always disagree with the issue of gifts, thats fine. We can still be brothers and sisters in Jesus no matter. It is the blood that binds us right??

-dar

 

Amen and I hope you don't think that I have been giving you a hard time. Anyway, what I meant by my comment is that most people who speak in tongues do it because they have seen others do it first. They start doing it before they know the scripture on the subject. After seeing some of the more obvious verses on the subject they must face either stopping doing it or making scriptures fit their opinion. If you read and studied tongues before doing it then I am wrong and am truely sorry. Remember the verse that says "my mind is unfruitful" that is so obvious to me that I feel everyone should be able to look at it and know a private prayer language is wrong. I forget sometimes how differently christians can see the same verse.

 

B, I didn't speak in tounges or try until I studied and prayed....thanks though -dar

 

Did you pray for the gift of tongues? If gifts are given when we are saved why did you wait to use yours? How long before you realized you had it? Just curious.

 

I was never taught at home about tounges. Three years after I met my husband I studied tounges and before then and during the study I prayed and asked God specifically that if tounges was truly of him that he would show me the truth and that if He wanted me to have them I would recieve them but if not I would not recieve them, I simply prayed that God would have his will in this in my life. After that I recieved it. -dar