Gifts of the Spirit have ceased?????????

Actually, the thing about women being silent...is answered in the very next verse: v.35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

This is further explained by the very same author (Paul) over in 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

We see more evidence of what Paul is saying in 1 Cor 11, where Paul rebuked the women of Corinth for exercising their newfound liberty in Christ to the point that they were disrespecting the men.

If the women in our church speak, it's to say "Amen," or to teach Sunday School to the little ones...but not to teach or usurp authority from the men....

And if I'm right, Brian, then you need to ask your pastor why he's allowing your church to violate scripture...I'm quite curious as to his response....

[ May 13, 2002, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

Oneness, when you speak in an unknown tonque, how do you know that you are actually talking to God? I don't want to sound disrespectful, but the devil has counterfeits, you know. I am just curious to how you know the difference. I have seen pagan worship on TV speak in tonques.

 

Any thoughts, Brian, about my last post?

Have you asked your pastor yet? Or at least one of the deacons?

 

Susan when you are praising God from your heart the Devil Cant counterfit that. Besides when God does it there is a Peace that Follows it. And a Joy unspeakable.

God Bless</font>[/QUOTE]I still do not want to come across as disrespectful or anything, but the devil does appear in "sheeps clothing" and as an angel of light to deceive people. I probably wouldn't be so pregidice(if that's how you spell it), if I hadn't had so many bad experiences with this doctrine. From all the people I know who speak in tonques, they are rude and self-righteous. When I walk by one in the grocery store and smile they quickly turn their head and avoid me as if I had the plague or something. They do not come across to me as having the love of Christ dwelling in them. Thank God Jesus is not that way. And no one can see in my soul and tell me I don't have the spirit of God living inside.
And if tonques are for today, do you also pick up serpents and drink poison? That's in there also, isn't it?
We are suppose to edify the church. We are suppose to tell of Jesus and His willingness to save, not going around putting everybody down because we don't have this or that gift. God is the issuer of gifts. And tongues is listed as the LEAST gift in the Bible.
But I am not saying you don't have this gift or anything. Just that all people are not expected to have it. There are many gifts and they all should come together for the edifying of the church.
God bless
Susan

 

In a nutshell, you're basically reiterating much of what we've been saying here. The letter to the church at Corinth was a rebuke and exhortation. Chapter 14 was specificially aimed at telling the Corinthian church that they were using the gift of tongues incorrectly.

In context with what Brian and I have been saying, he's evidenced that his church is incorrectly using the gift as well, and that's where this conversation has gone at this point.

If you can show where Brian's church is NOT violating scripture (as in, let one or two or three speak in tongues, as opposed to the entire congregation at once), then please do so.

In a nutshell, NO.

 

That was a huge cop-out, Brian. Are you afraid to ask him?

And yes, I will e-mail him, and relate what you've told me (without using your name), and ask for an answer.

But the question remains: Why aren't YOU asking him?

 

Don't read more into my answer than there was. The question was, "are the gifts being used in the church world today correctly," not "are the gifts still alive in the church world today"...using a shovel incorrectly might mean that you have a shovel, but it doesn't mean you're digging a hole....

[ May 15, 2002, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

Do you honestly believe that the Spirit of God is making you violate His written Holy Word? Why would the Spirit do that? Isn't it supposed to be that same Spirit that told Paul to write these instructions that you now claim is compeling you to ignore them? Where is the order in that?

~Lorelei

 

Paul also says, "if there is knowledge, it will be done away." We still have knowledge (as far as I can tell).

It might be very hard to prove "miraculous sign gifts have ceased" with the cessation of knowledge.

The time when "tongues shall cease" will be when the "perfect comes." The "perfect" (the day when "the partial will be done away," when we shall see "face to face," and when we shall "know fully," i.e. when Christ brings us to Heaven) has not yet arrived.

If no knowledge, how can you know that there is no knowledge?

What the apostle says is clear. It's one's interpretation of what Paul "says, quite clearly," which mayn be in question.

With all due respect, it is more accurate for Cassidy to have asserted: "God said it, Paul recorded it. Now all you have to do is repent of your unbelief and accept how I interpret what God has said!

 

hello Don. the orignal Greek word for Deacon isiakonos = Servant. Go to the Nave's topical Bible and you will find more answers there. Easton's bible dictionary also has 3 meanings for deacon. they are:runner,messenger,and servant. you asked where else is it used, and with regards to whom? are you asking for scripture on this? seeing i'm not baptist, i can see why you're curious..[a little humor here...lol]..hope i've answered your ?'s...panza

 

Why does this say to go to the edlers of the church?

1 Corinthians 12:9 says that some were given the gift of healing. Why doesn't this verse mention those that have the gift of healing?

~Lorelei

 

Hi, Panza. I apologize if I seem a little devious here, but I already knew what you posted; I'm asking for those that brought up the subject to take a closer look at it themselves.

And yes, I'm interested in the additional scripture(s) that I didn't list where "diakonos" is used.

Now I'm gonna go back and see if I can figure out why I even brought it up...and naturally, I'm not smart enough to see where I posted that. Could you help me out, Panza?

--Oh, wait; there it is on page 3. Now I remember. Panza, if you check further down in the "Other Religions" section, you'll find a thread I started called "What are the Spiritual Gifts?" In it I listed the scriptures that tell us what the gifts are, and I was hoping to generate discussion and explanation of several of them (so far, people seem to be reluctant to get into this).

If you peruse that list, you'll find that "deacon" is not specifically listed as one of them....

[ May 17, 2002, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

Oneness/Brian, I'm still waiting for your pastor to reply to my e-mail (that I sent to him the same day you offered this to me, May 15).

Perhaps you could ask him for me why he's not responding?

[ May 17, 2002, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Don ]