1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Giuliani: "Freedom is about authority"

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by KenH, Aug 15, 2007.

Top Posters
  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This quote from Rudy Giuliani is worse than anything I have ever heard Hillary Clinton say:

    "We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

    - http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A01E2D9173CF933A15750C0A962958260
     
    #1 KenH, Aug 15, 2007
  2. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,333
    Likes Received:
    210
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That sounds like it's straight out of 1984...

    "FREEDOM IS SLAVERY! WAR IS PEACE!"
     
    #2 StefanM, Aug 15, 2007
  3. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Giuliani says here when taken in its total context. With freedom comes responsibility. Are you saying that authority is bad? I dont understand what the problem is here. Everyone has some sort of authority in their life that they live by. God and the Bible. Their own opinions. Karl Marx. L. Ron Hubbard. Who or what is yours?
     
    #3 Ps104_33, Aug 16, 2007
  4. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hearing it the way Ken does it seems awful. But the way Rudy intended it, it's right on. Typical spinning.
     
    #4 hillclimber1, Aug 16, 2007
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Comment deleted. I was out of line. My apologies.
     
    #5 KenH, Aug 16, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2007
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. I agree with our Founding Fathers who wrote the U.S. constitution to keep the federal government chained and the citizens free to pursue their personal dreams.
     
    #6 KenH, Aug 16, 2007
  7. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,727
    Likes Received:
    873
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Guess this means that the libs have it right -- no matter what you do, it's always somebody else's fault!!

    Now I'm sure (I think!?) this is NOT what you (Ken) meant, but to absolve yourself from ANY authority is exactly what it sounds like.

    Perhaps you can be a little more explanatory as to what you REALLY meant by giving examples of limited, restrained authority that is acceptable in your view.

    Incidentally, I agree with the other two who see no problem with Giuliani's statement as is, and I am a far cry from an authoritian.

    Rebut the comments, not the commentor!!!!!:BangHead:
     
    #7 just-want-peace, Aug 16, 2007
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1) You are correct. My bad. Comment deleted.

    2) The U.S. constitution.
     
    #8 KenH, Aug 16, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2007
  9. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,727
    Likes Received:
    873
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Humor me; be a little more specific.

    Let's take an extreme of each end.

    Ok for traffic laws (stop lights, speed restrictions etc)?
    to
    Smoking ban in city limits, extending your own home?

    Just as a guide, where does gov't intervention begin to exceed the constitution?

    I'm not being facetious, cause I agree with you that we have WAY too much govt and would love to see it restrained, but without the responsibility part of the freedoms, there will soon be no freedoms.

    I'm just looking for the tipping point for you.
     
    #9 just-want-peace, Aug 16, 2007
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If the federal government involves itself in any of these issues then it has gone beyond its constitutional boundaries.
     
    #10 KenH, Aug 16, 2007
  11. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,727
    Likes Received:
    873
    Faith:
    Baptist
    One last try!

    I appreciate your concern, but if you were running for POTUS, and this concept were your platform, you would have to be more specific as to what IS denied the Feds by the constitution that is now law.

    In other words, traffic control, as I see it, is not a violation of the constitution since the originators had absolutely no concept of "motorized travel". The attendent problems that would arise therein that HAD TO BE ADDRESSED lest pure chaos reign across the nation.

    Now I totally agree that the govt should be much, much less intrusive than it is, but I fail to see how I can agree with your statement
    Clarification is all I'm requesting.

    Incidentally, I just realized that the quote by Giuliani has nothing to do with the Feds; just "authority", which makes my question to you even more important as to what you mean! Taken to the extreme, you could be saying that you agree that parents should have no authority over their kids.

    I know this is NOT what you mean, but left as you state it that is a possible interpretation.
     
    #11 just-want-peace, Aug 16, 2007
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1) Perhaps this is the bottom line of our difference: I believe that the federal government can only do what the U.S. constitution authorizes it to do. It is not a matter of what it is denied from doing but what it is authorized to do.

    2) The context of his statement, especially considering that he is running for president, is about government.
     
    #12 KenH, Aug 16, 2007
  13. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    5,122
    Likes Received:
    19
    By all means, please share with us "the way Rudy intended it."

    BiR
     
    #13 Baptist in Richmond, Aug 17, 2007
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...