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Featured Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Jul 27, 2020.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Ok
    You were still lost and heading for hell when Jesus said ' it is finish ' . Your essentially denying the resurrection as that is what saves not only his death . Jesus Death made your salvation possible it did not secure it .
     
    #21 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  2. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    when did he nail it to the cross ? 2000 years ago is the answer , not when you believed . Sin is not the barrier anymore , Jesus has dealt with that issue . But we are not saved by Jesus blotting out those things that were against us , anymore than paying for a broken window repairs the glass. Everyone is still in the ' and falls short of the Glory of God ' category . No one can be in heaven without being glorified. To access this salvation is through Faith . simple .
     
    #22 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Limited atonement = God gets all the glory. Universal atonement = you rob him of his glory in salvation and give it to yourself..thinking you saved yourself.
     
    #23 1689Dave, Jul 30, 2020
  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    What you need to ask yourself is ,how does salvation work ? And what are the components of salvation . What Jesus did and how does it apply . Were Justified by His blood ,but we were not justified when he Bled . He nailed all sinners sins to the cross but its of no use to the man who does not recieve the atonement. When do we recieve the atonement when Jesus atoned ? no , that's why we have to recieve it .How do we recieve? by believing the Gospel . You and Calvernists are under the illusion that Jesus death saves . Or that salvation is secured on the cross .
     
    #24 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Could you explain how I believe I saved my self ? Did I die on a cross , was I buried and did I rise again ? Did I regenerate myself ? Did I baptise myself into the body of Christ ? Did I seal myself ? did I predestinate myself to future Adoption ? Do I need to persevere to the end to be saved ? no . Do I need to look to my works to know im saved ? Am I etrernally secure and it has nothing to do with my works. yes
     
    #25 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    defending Gods Glory should be subject to what God said he has done and purposed . Philosophical topics about Glory , sovereignty, free will ect should come second to the authority of the Scriptures.
     
    #26 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  7. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you mean by "Arminians", but one thing's for sure, our Calvinist brethren are very humble, as they often point out.
     
    #27 George Antonios, Jul 30, 2020
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You rob him of his glory in salvation and credit yourself. Bad fix you are in.
     
    #28 1689Dave, Jul 30, 2020
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Do you trust in free will? If so you reject Christ as savior.
     
    #29 1689Dave, Jul 30, 2020
  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    No I freely trusted in Jesus .
     
    #30 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You "Choose" to be your own savior thereby.
     
    #31 1689Dave, Jul 30, 2020
  12. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Nope we only recieve after ..thats why the verse says NOW we have recieved the atonement.
     
    #32 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  13. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    You might need to figure out how salvation works, because that makes no sense . Jesus chose to be the saviour ..of the whole world .
     
    #33 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Why isn't everyone saved?
     
    #34 1689Dave, Jul 30, 2020
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Because not everyone recieves Jesus .
     
    #35 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    See when you ask a question like that it seems to imply you dont know what saves or how were are saved .
     
    #36 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    = they need to receive him to save themselves = works, not grace. Grace = they receive him because he first received them.
     
    #37 1689Dave, Jul 30, 2020
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It's because I'm proving you do not know what grace or salvation is.
     
    #38 1689Dave, Jul 30, 2020
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    John 1:12

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
     
    #39 Barry Johnson, Jul 30, 2020
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “But as many as received him (passively, like a pat on the back), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:12–13 (NCPB)
     
    #40 1689Dave, Jul 30, 2020
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