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God causes all good allows all evil - is this right?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by IfbReformer, Jul 30, 2003.

  1. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer New Member

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    Hi all,

    I believe in the Soveringty of God.

    The simplist way I have summed it up for people is in this statement:

    "God causes all good things, and God allows all bad things."

    What I mean by that is that God causes men to act righteously and God allows man to act sinfully.

    I will zoom in for a moment on what I believe God allows - sin.

    Does God allow all sin and evil - no, it is clear from not only secular history but Biblical history that God does not always allow the evil ones to do what they want to do. He only allows them to do such things as are in comformity with his plan.

    But this does not make God the author of sin, it is only his allowance of it.

    If God did not allow sin, none of us would exist right now and the world would have no evil in it so it seems like an obvious truth.

    But then there are those who while they have no problem accepting that God allows sin, cannot accept that God causes all good things to happen.

    In their mind the statement would be like this:

    "God allows but does not cause all good to happen, God allows but does not cause all evil to happen."

    In essense God does not control anything but is an observer.

    IFBReformer
     
  2. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

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    This scripture answers your question quite well:

     
  3. David Mark

    David Mark New Member

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    I find these verses interesting. I imagine that these verses in Isaiah may be referring to a specific instance, but nevertheless, God is saying that he does this thing and apparently he has reasons for it.
     
  4. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer New Member

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    I find these verses interesting. I imagine that these verses in Isaiah may be referring to a specific instance, but nevertheless, God is saying that he does this thing and apparently he has reasons for it. </font>[/QUOTE]Mark,

    That is a very interesting passage. I take "I make peace, and create evil" to mean that God made evil men like Stalin and Hitler. But he did not cause Hitler to kill 6 million Jews, he allowed Hitler to kill 6 million Jews as part of his plan for the Jewish people.

    Thanks for comment.

    IFBReformer
     
  5. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

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    How did the deceiving serpent get into God's perfect Garden?
     
  6. RRHeustisJr

    RRHeustisJr New Member

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    To say that God merely allows something to happen is to say that God does not control what is happening.

    God is in control of all things. He declares the end from the beginning.

    All things that happen are "things". Therefore, God controls those things.

    God works through his entire creation according to their nature. He therefore works through sinful man according to his nature. When man sins, God is working through that sinful act in order to accomplish the good pleasure of His will.

    God does not merely "allow" things to happen as an observer. He controls all things.
     
  7. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

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    I find these verses interesting. I imagine that these verses in Isaiah may be referring to a specific instance, but nevertheless, God is saying that he does this thing and apparently he has reasons for it. </font>[/QUOTE]When I read this passage from Isaiah I think of evil in the sense of calamity rather than wickedness.
     
  8. DCK

    DCK New Member

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    Job's reaction to his suffering may offer a useful example for us. Although it is Satan who is the direct cause of Job's ordeal, he only acts as God allows him to. And Job assumes throughout that God is the one who brought all this calamity upon him. (He is of course unaware of what went on in the courts of heaven.) Was Satan responsible for Job's misery, or was the Lord? One of the messages of the book is that God is sovereign over evil as well as good, and the relationship between these two will never be fully comprehended by us. Our reaction can only be (like Job's) one of humility and faithful submission.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

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    God "created" the perfect sinless holy being - "Lucifer". God "ALLOWED" him to fall into sin and "allowed" other sinless perfect beings - Angels - to fall with him.

    God "created" the perfect sinless holy human race - male and female (one family, one marriage - as opposed to the gay agenda today).

    But God "allowed" Adam and Eve to "sin" to fall and to doom all the human race.

    This is "the starting point".

    God "Allows" the consequence of "choice" both GOOD ones and bad ones. The angels that "chose" to remain faithful - continue to live in heaven - perfect, sinless, holy lives.

    In Job - God is declaring that Job's "choice" is for God. Satan claims "God is manipulating Job" with blessing and benefit. That in fact Job is NOT expressing his own free will - but RATHER - his will is manipulated by God - blessing that bribe him into choosing God. IF God were to allow Satan to prompt Job with "dissincentives" of the same type - then we would see the truly "manipulative" nature of Job's choice. The fact that we can "make Job do whatever we want" by blessing and curses because Job himself has no "real choice" only a "reaction" to the environment around him.


    And God says "you're ON! Go for it" - and Satan fails to make the point stick. In fact God proves him to be dead wrong.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member

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    I like the way someone explained to me about the origin of evil being from God. God gave the confrontation. But Satan chose to rebel. Without the confrontation there would have been no opportunity for rebellion. So in that sense all is from God.
     
  11. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

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    "Evil" in that passage has several different meanings, such as "adversity", "affliction", "calamity", "displeasure", "distress", "trouble", plus some morally "evil" meanings such as "bad", "hurt", "wicked".
    So with God, it is obviously the non-moral meanings. It is Satan and fallen man who create sin, and then God punishes them in calamity or adversity, thus "creating evil", but not the same as creating "wickedness".
     
  12. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    In a sense, we punish ourselves. Most people will call what happens to us as a result of sin a punishment from God, but there's a number of things that happen that you could say we "created" ourselves. If you abuse your body and smoke, is it God's fault you get lung cancer or did God send that as a punishment?
    If you commit a sexual sin and get a disease, did you do that to yourself or was it God's punishment?
    If you do not stand up for what you believe and allow an evil government to take over, did God cause oppression as your punishment or did you?
    While God may in his grace prevent such things from happening so that ultimately we can't say he doesn't have complete control over it, it explains how we are still held responsible for such things.
    I think. Did that make sense to anyone but me? [​IMG]
    Gina
     
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