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God chose YOU to bear fruit...

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 22, 2021.

  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    This is from John Calvin’s commentary on John 15:16.

     
    #1 Humble Disciple, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another copy and post thread from Calvinist advocates.

    Chosen for what? Why did His disciples "choose" to come and see Jesus? What does scripture actually say? Does scripture say Jesus knew who believed before He chose them? Inquiring minds want to know...

    2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

    Thus the divine choosing comes after the invitation, not before!! And God knows from the beginning who did not believe and therefore who did!!!!
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Now as Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.

    And He *said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.”
    Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.

    Going on from there He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and He called them.

    Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.

    Jesus invited (called) and they responded (their human choice) and then Christ chose them for His purpose. And one of the twelve did not believe (Judas) but was chosen for the "betrayer" purpose.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him [Jesus], was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.

    He *found first his own brother Simon and *said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which translated means Christ).
    He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon the son of John; you shall be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter).
     
  5. unprofitable

    unprofitable Member

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    Brother Van,

    To me, Calvin is no more than another catholic.

    Nevertheless the doctrines of election cannot viewed without validation.

    How could the Father know who will and will not believe unless He had been first predestined/established it?

    How can the valid/righteous prophesy of the old testament saints, as they were instructed by the Father, be fulfilled without it first being predestinated?

    How can we look at Revelation as being valid unless it was first spoken of by the mouth of the Lord?

    If the Father did not establish the future, who did?

    For the Father to look into the future and say this or that would happen without Him first determining it is to make Him no more than a fortune teller.

    Indeed, Judas was predestined as is witnessed in John 17:12, Acts 1:16, and the 10 other verses that speak concerning "that the scriptures might be fulfilled", therefore predestined.

    The bearing of fruit is the work of the edifying of the body of Christ, the kingdom of God. Christ says in Matt 21:43, "Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof." John 15:16 is the promise given to the body of Christ, AN HOLY NATION (1 Pet 2:9)., not the individual apart from it.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    John 15:16, ". . . Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. . . ."

    John 15:1-2, ". . . I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. . . ."

    I am of the point of view because ". . . gave himself a ransom for all . . ." all are in Jesus as the true vine in their beginning.

    So little children to young to believe start out in the vine.
    Mark 10:14-15, ". . . [Allow] the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. . . ." [John 3:3-4.]

    John 15:6, ". . . If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. . . ."

    One who is of age where one must believe in order to abide does not then abide in Christ until one believes in Him, 1 John 3:6 argues, ". . . Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. . . ." 2 Corinthians 5:21, ". . . For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. . . ." Galatians 3:13, ". . . Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: . . ." 1 John 3:4, ". . . Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. . . ." Galatians 2:21, ". . . I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. . . ." James 2:10, ". . . For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. . . ." Romans 6:14, ". . . For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. . . ."

    Yes, there is more to this. 1 Timothy 1:9-11, ". . . Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. . . ." Romans 3:31, ". . . Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. . . ."

    And more.
     
    #6 37818, Jul 25, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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