Featured God Eternally Existed Before ANYTHING else was made, correct?

I didn't see the thread but I got a picture in my head of someone starting a thread to argue over nothing. Is that something?

 

Fair enough.

God and His "free will" creatures would all act, so the future could theoretically go many different directions, EXCEPT that God's actions would restrain the full course of history from going against His purposes and will. God would counter, as needed, actions made by "free will" creatures to accomplish His purposes.

I don't think God is bound by time (whatever it truly is), but He certain does act within time. God is certainly in the "right now" (the eternal present) and knows everything He wants to know about the past (apparently He choses to forget our sins in some cases), and for the Open Theist, He has a very good perspective on the future because He knows all the plans, motivations and actions of His creatures. I happen to think God knows more than the Open Theist believes, but I would not dare speculate just how that works.

I happen to believe that God has provided humankind with extensive free will (of course, within the context of what is possible for us physically, imaginatively, etc.). I also believe that God is sovereign over all of His creation and creatures, although He makes room for us to actively and passively disobey Him for a time. As we purposely align ourselves with the rule of God (the Kingdom of God/the Kingdom of the Heavens) we will find ourselves setting aside our rebellious tendencies and embracing God's way of life. When God finally does away with all competing Kingdoms (the end of the age), those of us who have entered the eternal Kingdom of God will be sustained in our life and reign with Him for eternity.

 

The thread asked anyone to paint a picture of the word "nothing." There were examples of being out in deep, dark space. However, there is space and that is something. We went through several examples, but the concept of "nothing" was ever adequately described. One poster tried to describe nothing as what there was before the creation of the universe.

Since we cannot grasp "nothing," what makes us think we can grasp eternity? One poster said it was "a higher dimension where God lives" which is about as close as we can get. Another poster described it as "a place without time or space." In addition to not being able to imagine that with our minds, we are not sure there is no space, just more dimensions than three.

The best illustration that was used, and it is an indirect one, was comparing out present state to a living being is a two dimensional world.

 

Yeah they are called determinists.

 

Since the Bible states He has set eternity in our hearts, it only reasons we wonder about and discuss eternity. There is nothing embarrassing about it, and one doesn't need to be a genius to form logical conclusions based on given information.

While our feeble minds cannot 'grasp' eternity, we can certainly understand God being within time, outside of time and existing at all points in time simultaneously...He's God.

 

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"Asiety" an attribute often overlooked here in BB land.

 

You have just called out His deity, His omnipresence, to be more precise. That's a low, humanistic view of God's eternal existence.

 

You are conceiving God as a series of attributes, not a Person. That leads to foolish "unsolvable" questions like, "Could God create a stone so heavy He could not lift it?" First, the question is rather insulting to God since God is a perfectly integrated Person, not attributes, and second, the question is self-contradictory because it presumes an infinite amount of weight and force competing with each other.

God can chose to self-limit for His own purposes. And in regard to the future, an Open Theist believes the future does not exist, so there's nothing to "know" about it.

God purposely limits His knowledge when He forgets our sins (Isaiah 43:25). Why do you think God cannot limit His knowledge in other ways for His own purposes?

 

It is not that He forgets them, He makes a choice not to remember them. It is not of inadequacy, it is because of His character/nature. The "attributes" of God do not override or conflict with each other, His will, or His character.

I think you need to meditate carefully on the meaning of these passages:

“I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake,
And I will not remember your sins." - Isaiah 43:25

“For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.” - Hebrews 8:12

“And their sins and their lawless deeds
I will remember no more.” - Hebrews 10:17

 

But that's contradictory to what these verses say. Furthermore, what scripture can you provide that says something to the effect that "God always knows my sins, but he sees them through the cross..."?

I've heard that a lot from the pulpit, but I don't recall seeing that sentiment in scripture.

I'm not trying to be combative here, but I'm sincerely interested to know if you can point me to something that will uphold that view. I've been thinking a lot about these issues lately.

 

Romans 3, NASB
24 [Those who believe (v. 22)] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time ...

Romans 5
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Ephesians 1
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.

1 John 1
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Hebrews 13
12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate.
Revelation 1
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood - ​

Certainly a case can be made from these verses that God does indeed see us through the blood of Jesus, given this:

Revelation 7
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

If not for the washing in the blood, our sins remain. God does see us through the blood of Christ. That can easily be extrapolated from these verses.

 

First, I need to say, thank you for your response!

Yes. The atonement of Christ demonstrated the righteousness of God and satisfied God's wrath toward rebellion(sin).

Yes. We have had the guilt and wrath removed through the shed blood of Christ.

Yes, we have been bought back from bondage to sin through the atoning blood of Christ.

Yes, our lives demonstrate that the shed blood of Jesus is continuously effective in removing sin from our lives (although I would be at a loss to know exactly how that works!).

Yes, we have been set apart and released from our sins by the blood of Jesus.

Yes, in some way the shedding of Christ's blood on the cross has accomplished all of these things.

But you didn't provide any verses that says that God NOW "see us through the blood of Christ" instead of not remembering our sin like these verses explicitly state:

“I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake,
And I will not remember your sins." - Isaiah 43:25

“For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.” - Hebrews 8:12

“And their sins and their lawless deeds
I will remember no more.” - Hebrews 10:17

I don't see any contradiction between the verse you quoted (all very good and helpful for this discussion) and the verses I have quoted above. I do see a contradiction between the idea that somehow God still sees our sin through "rose colored glasses" every time He looks upon us. It seems to me that God has dealt with the guilt for our sin issue "once for all" when we become a disciple of Jesus and begin the process of sanctification. We become dead to sin and alive to God at that time. We are crucified with/in Christ and the life we live in the flesh we live by faith in the Son of God. God remembers our sin no more. We are preparing to receive Him as He returns again without reference to sin (Hebrews 9:28). The guilt over our sin is dealt with already (Hebrews 9:26) and the only issue we have with sin at this point is to crucify it (leave it behind) as we are transformed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we won't sin on occasion - especially as we are just beginning our journey of discipleship - but our lives will be characterized more and more by the righteousness, love and character of God. Sin will always be "crouching at the door" and we will have to guard against it (and failing occasionally), but that won't be our lifestyle.

The reason why I think this is a big deal that God "does not remember our sin" is that in discipleship to Jesus, it is easy to get focused on avoiding sin instead of obeying Jesus. We are not called to be sin avoiders (although that is part of the calling), but followers of Christ to announce and expand the Kingdom of God. When we are busy doing the work of God, we will find that sin will become less attractive to us and we will find the strength to say no to temptation. We will become the type of person who hates sin and loves God.

 

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