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God expects us to live up to the light we have.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Jan 3, 2007.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Does the Fundamental Beliefs cover receiving "light" from above?

    God Bless!
     
    #21 steaver, Jan 4, 2007
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Then what is receiving "light"?

    God Bless!
     
    #22 steaver, Jan 4, 2007
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    No because it does not view that as a "form of doctrinal proof".

    But it does discuss the need to accept the 1Cor 12 teaching on Spiritual Gifts.

    SDAs do not do as the RCC does and appeal to some Pope or ECF to make its case INSTEAD of going "sola scriptura".

    SDAs do not do as the Mormons do and appeal to some extra-biblical prophetic source to make its doctrinal case as the Mormons do.

    Though I have been tempted to do that when studying with Mormons just to frustrate them and show them that such methods are pointless.
     
    #23 BobRyan, Jan 4, 2007
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Well then it has nothing to do with this thread.

    God Bless!
     
    #24 steaver, Jan 4, 2007
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It only deals with this thread in that you were asking a question of the form "at what point does GOD hold someone accountable for truth rejected"
     
    #25 BobRyan, Jan 4, 2007
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Bob, this thread is about receiving "light" which is what SDA's claim is why some Christians are allowed to get away with sin even though they have read all of the scriptures.

    SDA's are not sola scriptura. You use the "light" factor, correct?

    God Bless!
     
    #26 steaver, Jan 4, 2007
  7. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Hey , I must go to bed, hate to, I enjoyed the chat , I'll pick it up later...God Bless!
     
    #27 steaver, Jan 4, 2007
  8. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    stever,

    I think you are confused. I meant conviction from the Holy Spirit on things already revealed in the Scriptures. sometimes you can read something but you just done "get it" or arent convincted of it yet... it hasnt been sent home to the heart by the Spirit as of yet.
     
    #28 Claudia_T, Jan 4, 2007
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    No, this is what I believe you to be saying.

    And do you not believe that if another Christian does not agree with your Holy Spirit convictions (light from above) then that Christian absolutely is wrong for what ever reason and you feel that you are absolutely correct?

    And so what you are here to do is to point other wayward Christians to the TRUE interpretations of the scripture because you have personally received the Truth from the Holy Spirit leaving no room for you to ever consider the remote possibility that you could be wrong about whatever said topic?

    This is the exact same thing the RCC and the Mormon's(led by Joe) claim, correct?

    And if Ellen has not handed down to you understanding(light) through her personal convictions by the Holy Ghost, and what light you have received concerning correct interpretations is directly from God, then why is her writings even necessary for you to read? Wouldn't she be nothing more than a preacher who has taught you to believe the same as herself just as Joe has taught his followers?

    But I don't want this thread to be about Ellen or Joe, whether they be right or wrong, or whether they are a true prophet of God or not. This is not why I bring her up or him. I want it to stay on this subject of light and I do believe that it mainly comes from Ellen's teachings for the SDA church. I know that you would say that these teaching about light are backed up by the scriptures, so that is where I would like to stay with this and not discuss what Ellen has to say.

    So this leaves me with the questions above to you and Bob.

    God Bless!
     
    #29 steaver, Jan 5, 2007
  10. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    oh of course! (I have learned not to argue with you about anything because no matter what I say you will pretend I didnt ever say it)

    so you are entirely correct! in whatever you assume about my church.
     
    #30 Claudia_T, Jan 5, 2007
  11. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Steaver asked:
    "And do you not believe that if another Christian does not agree with your Holy Spirit convictions (light from above) then that Christian absolutely is wrong for what ever reason and you feel that you are absolutely correct?

    And so what you are here to do is to point other wayward Christians to the TRUE interpretations of the scripture because you have personally received the Truth from the Holy Spirit leaving no room for you to ever consider the remote possibility that you could be wrong about whatever said topic?"


    My answer is... (Jeopardy song playing)

    YES. I believe that I am right just as everyone else here believes they are right.

    However, if someone plainly shows me from the Bible that I am wrong, then I would change my opinion on any given subject. Just like most other people. Thats why Jesus said call no man master because all ye are brethren. Everybody is liable to err. we are human, after all.

    OF COURSE.

    ^^eating my popcorn and waiting to see how this show will end up
    **I cant wait until he answers to this because I realize that no matter how I answer he is going to claim Im trying to weasel my way out of answering this. And I know that I cant win, no matter how I answer its going to be the wrong answer. Because obviously he wants me to say or at least make it look like Im saying that SDAs are her to go around proseletyzing everyone which is against forum rules.

    On the other hand, you dont want to be so wishy washy that you dont even believe you can know what the truth is. If thats the case then you would never be certain about anything. And so how could you follow the Biblical admonition to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" Jude 1:3??? I mean if you arent even sure what that is???

    How about if we pose the same exact question to you, Steaver?
    What are you here for? Are you just not sure at all if anything that you believe is really right?
     
    #31 Claudia_T, Jan 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2007
  12. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry Claudia, but you just don't understand my questions. Do you ever really read what I ask or do you simply breeze over them?

    My questions are not about OPINIONS or INDEPENDANT CONVICTIONS after reading/studying scripture.

    My questions are about "LIGHT GIVEN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT" that is "HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTION" concerning what has been written in scripture.

    If the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF HAS CONVICTED YOU that eating pork is sin then there is NO WAY ANYONE can convince you from scripture that you are wrong!! You see? You received your conviction from God, how could it EVER CHANGE?

    The title of this thread is a quote from you. I started this thread to define just what being "GIVEN LIGHT" entails. This is not about OPINIONS.

    If you are certain that God gives "light"(Holy Spirit Conviction) concerning CORRECT INTERPRETATION of scripture to His children (Christians), and you are certain that God has given you light concerning the eating of pork, then deliberating scripture to convince you that you can eat pork without offense towards God is MUTE.

    Your thinking too much about what I am thinking and not carefully reading what I am writing. :tonofbricks:

    I am here for two reasons, 1# to have my iron sharpened, 2# Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.(Jam 5:19-20)

    Are you then here to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" Jude 1:3??? ..............Have you received light from God that your positions are right???............If so then it is impossible for anyone to ever show you from scripture that you are wrong in those positions you hold.

    God Bless! :wavey:
     
    #32 steaver, Jan 5, 2007
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Here is a one question post, it is what I have been asking in a long winded way...you always bring up the subject of "light" in your debates with me over obeying commandments...soo...

    What is your definition of the "light" that God gives to His children?

    PLEASE be specific! Give an example of your own if you can of how a Christian can receive light! Like how you received "light" that eating pork was forbidden for Christians, or how you received "light" that the Sabbath should be honored by NT Christians.

    God Bless!
     
    #33 steaver, Jan 5, 2007
  14. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    well I receive "light" by doing proper Bible study... as described here:

    1Cor:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    You just ask the Holy Spirit to give you light on the Bible and study it by comparing scripture with scripture.

    You look up all the verses on a subject you can find. Then you allow each verse to have its own weight.

    You leave your preconceived opinions at the door and open your mind to receive whatever it is God desires to teach you..

    When you find something that goes against what you had previously believed you decide that you will follow the light God is giving you.. You dont stubbornly hold on to your previous ideas.

    That is how I "receive light"... I cant speak for anyone else here.

    Actually, the parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins tells us just how we receive light. The Wise Virgins had Oil in their Lamps.

    Lamps:
    Ps:119:105: Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

    Oil:
    Zechariah 4:
    1: And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,
    2: And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
    3: And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
    4: So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
    5: Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

    6: Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

    11: Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
    12: And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

    It is only the Holy Spirit (the Oil) in our Lamps (the Bible) that can make it effective to reach the heart.... otherwise we will not be able to understand

    Claudia
     
    #34 Claudia_T, Jan 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2007
  15. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:applause: That is answering the question! That is all I ever asked for...Thank You!

    What you do here(above) to receive "light" is the EXACT same thing I do! This is why I needed a definition from you because I thought maybe you was getting some direct voice from God that I wasn't.

    I have followed the exact same steps while studying Sabbath keeping and Pork eating and I have received "light" from God that these two issues are the exact opposite as you believe that you have received "light" from God concerning them.

    So now what??? Did you misunderstand God's "light" or did I?? Are you being stubborn or am I? Someone is getting the wrong "light". How do we know who?

    God Bless!
     
    #35 steaver, Jan 6, 2007
  16. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    You did, of course.

    You are of course.


    :)
     
    #36 Claudia_T, Jan 6, 2007
  17. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    ...Just teasing you, Steaver...

    I will try to come back later this evening and re-read what you said and answer...
     
    #37 Claudia_T, Jan 6, 2007
  18. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    :rolleyes:
     
    #38 steaver, Jan 11, 2007
  19. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Steve


    could you tell me exactly which stuff you wanted me to answer at this point?
     
    #39 Claudia_T, Jan 11, 2007
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    How is the "light" you received concerning pork or Sabbath keeping "truth" and the "light" I received concerning pork and Sabbath keeping "truth" when we received exact opposite "lights" from God concerning the issues?

    If both cannot be "truth", how does your church (SDA) measure who is following truth? I will jump ahead and assume you will say scripture must back up the "light". But we already established that we BOTH have followed the same steps for receiving the "light". We both studied scripture while praying for God's wisdom without preconceived positions (I know I have).

    So must we conclude that the "light" cannot be proven and it is solely "personal" conviction and this leaves us with nothing more than bible study and personal interpretations?

    Could we conclude that what you believe to be the correct "light" or what I believe to be the correct "light", coupled with scripture study of course, could still be wrong?

    God Bless!
     
    #40 steaver, Jan 12, 2007
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