God expects us to live up to the light we have.

It is based on the Bible - and so it is available to all to see the text of Gen 6, Isaiah 66, Lev 11 etc and to note that "The Word of God can not be broken" John 10:35

Apparently it was not in scripture.

sola scriptura.

The RCC would argue that you need a Pope to "break the tie" but we reject that logic.

Our position is that if you had followed valid exegesis of all texts on the subject you too could have come to the right conclusion "sola scriptura" as we did.

Wrong. If such reasoning had validity then JW accept/reject of trinity would be nothing more than "personal conviction" and RCC belief in 'turning bread into God' would be "personal conviction" - hence the RCC argument for a "Pope" using YOUR reasoning above.

Those tossing out man-made tradition and accepting Exegetically sound methods of sola-scriptura doctrinal positions will be correct.

That is how the Lev 11 denying SDA church was confronted with Truth and then submitted to it - so they now ACCEPT Lev 11, Is 66, Gen 6 and 7 etc.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Steaver,

Are you wanting me to explain to you the role of Ellen White in our Church? Im not sure but it seems that way.

I would be absolutely happy to do that for you except that honestly, in that other recent thread I tried to tell you some things but you just kept on acting as if I hadnt said them, which makes it too difficult to have a conversation with you, it is frustrating.

Add to that the fact that if I sincerely just tried to explain the role of Ellen White to us as it relates to the Scriptures and our understanding of it, there would be people coming in this thread jumping all over whatever I say, twisting my words, accusing her of being a "false prophet", and it would turn into a virtual Circus.

I just honestly think that I am not feeling up to that and cant see the good it would do.

It would do a whole lot of good if you were genuinely interested in gaining an understanding of it and if others wouldnt come here and turn it into a Zoo.

But just the thing where you and others might say I said things that I didnt really say, etc. and so forth, I just dont that I would want to go down that road.

Claudia

 

I don't see how that is a request aksing for "information about ellen white" Claudia. How did you come to that conclusion?

 

I just figured thats what he was really getting at.

 

In John 16 Christ said "I have many more things to tell you but you can not receive them now"

He also states that the Spirit is given as the "Spirit of truth" and He GUIDES us into ALL truth. The Spirit is as much the author of scripture as He is the one who guides us into all truth. We are relying on one and the same member of the trinity when we READ scripture and also pray to God the Holy Spirit to REVEAL truth to us.

It is not the case that ALL humanity is open to the SAME truth when they read Rom 2:11-13 -- some are down right opposed to what it says - while others embrace it.

There is no way to deny this.

Also your "most of us do not agree with you" argument is the same one the Jewish leaders had to use against the Apostles. It is not a form of Bible Exegesis. But be that as it may - this is WHY I often appeal to NON-SDA Bible commentators showing that EVEN THEY agree with key points being denied here by those who are either opposed to Christ's Sabbth or Lev 11 or some other portion of scripture.

in Christ,

Bob

 

THAT is the very reason I avoid talking to you, I dont even really know what you are asking yet you are already accusing me of things... it just makes it difficult to want to have a conversation with you, steaver.

I thought I already answered your questions anyway. I dont see what you are wanting to know.

But I mean, you are saying I dont know how to defend my positions, I dont even know what it is you are asking me to defend LOL! seriously.

then you accuse me of being an SDA who has just been taught to believe something...

thats what I mean, I dont even have to SAY anything and you are already doing this to me.

so I dont even want to be involved in this.. sorry.

 

Helen,

I understand where you are coming from but you dont really know that I am concentrating on works.

Its more like that the people on here, or at least some of them that normally post about grace... if you were to tell them they didnt care about works they'd tell you that was wrong.

I think that whatever people view as that others dont realize they need to do... well thats what they emphasize because they dont think others realize they need to do it.

I know really really well about the fact that we need to keep our eyes on Christ...

Claudia

 

You think it possible one might refuse 'further light', then use his ignorance for an excuse that he walks not according to the greater light?

 

well there could be a third option or reason you dont see the light about the Sabbath, it could just be cause you're a dumbhead

Steaver, Im totally just kidding with you :laugh:

 

Seriously though, I think another yet unstated reason people dont get the light is because once you distort certain key points in the Scriptures then you have to distort others as well to make everything seem bearable...

You start out with one false premise then have to bend everything else to that...

 

Okay Im going to tell you the REAL reason I think people dont receive the light...


"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth the field."

The man who found the treasure was ready to part with all that he had. He was ready to labor untiringly. He counted no sacrifice too dear ro gain these treasures.

We cannot be wise in our own estimation.

Christ gave the Jewish people plenty of evidence that He was the Messiah; but His teaching called for a decided change in their lives. They realized if they received Christ, they would have to give up their cherished traditions, along with their ungodly practices. They had to sacrifice to receive the truth. Therefore they would not admit the most conclusive evidence that God could give to establish faith in Christ.

"Among the chief rulers also many believed on Him," we read; "but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue." John 12:42. They were convinced Jesus to be the Son of God; but it would interrupt their cherished plans.

Others just believe what their "church fathers" tell them without being willing to search for the truth themselves.

Much of the problem with searching the scriptures has to do with a willingness to obey God. They dont want to obey God's commandments. The Scriptures are not to be adapted to meet the prejudice and jealousy of men. Only those who are humbly seeking for a knowledge of the truth that they may obey it are going to find it.

You have to lay aside your preconceived opinions, all your previously held ideas, at the door of investigation. Dont just try to vindicate your own opinions. Search in order to learn what the Lord says. If conviction comes as you search, if you see that your cherished opinions are not in harmony with the truth, do not misinterpret the truth in order to suit your own belief, but accept the light given.

"If thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; if thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God." Prov. 2:3-5.

 

If someone says "always make sure to turn the stove off before going to the store" ...that doesnt mean you accusing anyone of having the stove on. You are just making a statement,

 

well as far as I can see, one you have this Once Saved Always Saved position it pretty much ruins everything else doctrinally... at least thats what Im seeing. Why worry about doing ANYTHING?

which came first? did you already accept this OSAS position then start studying about the Sabbath afterwards?