God expects us to live up to the light we have.

Steaver:

"I have already prayed, studied and received light from God that OSAS is Truth. And as I stiudied and prayed about pork and Sabbath keeping I received further light that these things had nothing to do with salvation. I also received light that EGW and Joe Smith were false prophets just pushing their own agendas and are basically just popes for different religious movements. So God has been very busy with enlightening me as I seek Him and study His Word. Praise Him!"


GE:

You do no different than did EGW right here in this statement of faith as I see it of yours. Especially how is it 'light' that taught you 'from the Scriptures' these things if nothing of any in the least is Scripture-based or just Scriptures straight quoted.

I think grace certainly brought you to the 'light' of OSAS - and that is saving grace enough. Doesn't mean though you're completely in the dark about things like the Sabbath.

 

Doesn't mean though you're NOT completely in the dark about things like the Sabbath.

 

and thats exactly why I avoid talking to you. because I knew thats what you were really getting at from the start, so it isnt "off topic"... it WAS the real topic.


Here are some "children" who dont want to hear a true prophet, and the real reason why:

Isaiah 30:
8: Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9: That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits


and here is how you can tell if you have no light:

Isa:8:20: To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


and here's how you can tell you are making war against the wrong people:

Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Steaver, thanks for sticking with it, never wavering. Check out what Helen has written on these boards for a good understanding of doctrine. Not that you don't understand, just supplement your learning with hers.

 

All right, Steaver, your post 64 may be dead right.
Nevertheless, this thread is about: "God expects us to live up to the light we have". Doesn't matter who says so, it is true. It applies to any confessing Christian.

To you as well. Do you scorn the Sabbath of the LORD your God? Do you eat what for the LORD your God is an "abomination"? Is God changeable? Is His judgment inconsistent? Are His standards pliable? Or was He wrong at first, and unfair in the past, and improves with time?

 

Wisdom is no saviour; it is a hard task-master; it never gives you a break. Wisdom is not for me, I would have preferred the Law if I had a choice, it's much kinder. But I am conquered by the Almighty; the other giants compare like fleas. (In Gulliver's travels - who were those tiny oukies who tied him up while he slept?)

 

Quote:

In John 16 Christ said "I have many more things to tell you but you can not receive them now"

He also states that the Spirit is given as the "Spirit of truth" and He GUIDES us into ALL truth. The Spirit is as much the author of scripture as He is the one who guides us into all truth. We are relying on one and the same member of the trinity when we READ scripture and also pray to God the Holy Spirit to REVEAL truth to us.

It is not the case that ALL humanity is open to the SAME truth when they read Rom 2:11-13 -- some are down right opposed to what it says - while others embrace it.

There is no way to deny this.

Also your "most of us do not agree with you" argument is the same one the Jewish leaders had to use against the Apostles. It is not a form of Bible Exegesis. But be that as it may - this is WHY I often appeal to NON-SDA Bible commentators showing that EVEN THEY agree with key points being denied here by those who are either opposed to Christ's Sabbth or Lev 11 or some other portion of scripture.

John 16

12 ""I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 ""But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 ""He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 "" All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

This is not the Calvinist spin "I will not LET you see truth for some strange reason" it is the much more obvious "I have MORE to tell you but YOU are not ready".

That would be the disciples of John 16 who had ALREADY been sent out as evangelists in Matt 10.

So "yes" we are talking about Christians and we are speaking to the obvious point (for example) that while there ARE saved Christians in both the Lutheran and RC denominiation they STILL do not agree on all points and the RCC actuallly opposed truth violently in the dark ages.

NOT because God blinded them but because the NT church over time CHOSE error.

This is not a question of "SAVED vs not Saved" as I pointed out ...



in Christ,

Bob

 

Both conditions exist - usually for the same person at the same time - but on different doctrinal points.

Recall the Lutheran and RC example in the previous post.

Ok

#1. If you used sound principles of exegesis and are open minded - you would accept Christ the Creator's Sabbath as He stated it "SO shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship from Sabbath to Sabbath" - so we know that in the New Heaven and New Earth (at the very latest) even you will come to accept this Truth of Scripture according to Is 66. That is beyond debate.

#2. I agree with you that rejection of this truth can either be because you are not being convicted on this point by the Holy Spirit -- as He is busy guiding you into some other doctrinal point that you have not accepted yet - OR you are simply choosiing to dredge up every roadblock possible to oppose what He is convicting. YET the Bible STILL remains abundantly clear on this point. Human nature - man-made tradition -- plus free will -- what a combination.

We know for example that many of the priests and Pharisees accepted Christ AFTER his resurrection though they opposed him BEFORE. Christ never argued that all jews were lost and going to hell when He was on earth. In fact He pointed to a number of them as being forgiven "your sins ARE forgiven go and sin no more" and were accepted by Him - in His fold while He had still others to gather in.

Hence the NT church evolving to the point of the Dark Ages is yet another example in History of the free will principle being pressed on the one hand by the sinful nature and traditions of man - and on the other hand by the convicting of truth by the Holy Spirit.

Notice in Matt 16 Peter is convicted on TRUTH about "who the Son of Man IS" -- but then when Christ takes Him to the NEXT truth in Matt 16 Peter said "OH No Lord may it never BE".

In Christ,

Bob

 

well at least now you are being honest about why you really actually made this thread, thats progress.

 

I thought that went well.

 

My how enlightening that when Christ confronts the Jewish leaders in Mark 7 for inserting their own man-made traditions HE is arguing that HIS position is faithful to the bible text and PROVES it - while THEIRS is merely tradition in place of scripture!

(And obviously the Jews did not PROMOTE their views by saying "HEY we are WRONG! We replace scripture with our man-made ideas and are in gross error". In fact they went around saying "We are learned in the scriptures - formally trained to interpret much better then some unlearned carpenter")

Yet you ignore this glaring fact.

How enlightening that when the Protestant groups confronted the traditions of the RCC that opposed scripture THEY TOO argued a sola scriptura "sound exegesis" position saying that the RCC traditions were in violation of a clear and unbiased reading of the text!

(The did not SAY that ALL bible doctrines of the RCC were in error but that SOME were).

Now when SDAs use that SAME protestant principle Steaver finds that as a point to be REJECTED????

How instructive.

In Christ,

Bob

 

When the Jews were confronted by the Bible ENDORSING views of Christ in Mark 7 ,, and the RCC leaders confronted by the sound sola-scriptura exegetically pure arguments of the reformers -- I can just "hear them saying"

How "instructive" that Steaver frames their argument FOR THEM!

I would not have believed it if I had not just seen it posted here for all to read - by Steaver!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Steaver's silence is deafening on the post about Peter and Matt 16 AND the post on the NT church evolving into the RCC of the dark ages... He simply avoids the inconvenient facts that refute his "not in scripture" empty assertions.

I guess that is "one way" to argue a failed position -

In Christ,

Bob

 

you are pretty much unbelievable Steaver, That you would say that based upon ANYTHING I have said is just astounding. The bad thing is people just read these things and believe them.

 

well I am just astonished, and I cant believe Steaver got all these things he is coming up with from anything Ive said ... its laughable.

 

It is "instructive" that failing TO HAVE me actually say that - Steaver INSERTS it and pronounces victory over his own made up argument AS IF I HAD MADE IT!!

What a great tool for debate in the dark ages -- but how well does it work in the light of day?

I think it would have been much more enlighteing to ADDRESS the points in my post -- instead of making up a bogus argument -

Instead of avoiding this post -- address post 69 showing that you oppose the very methods used by the reformers. http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=940065&postcount=69

The same is shown in post 72 and 73 -- you simply ignore what you can not answer and then repeat some bogus argument nobody has MADE here!!

How in the world does that "SHOW" anything but the failure in your own position?

Just a thought.

In Christ,

Bob

 

steve

have you been smoking something? some of the stuff you have come up with , I cant hardly believe it and have no clue how you couldve gotten any of it from what I have said...