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God hates the sin and the sinner!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Brother Shane, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    And where in scripture does it "clearly" say that God withhold his love from thos ehe hates?

    Answer: No where.

    I will therefore stick to scripture, since scripture does not support your view.
    Hell is for people who reject Him. Being sent to Hell is not based on God's feelings about a person.
     
  2. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Let me sin - The Psalms, most like written by or for David - who was a great sinner, say God hates sinners. Yet, God did not hate David.

    Christ, who IS God, says God loves the world and came to save sinners.
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    So scripture says God hates workers of iniquity, unless the worker of iniquity believs in Him? More warping of scripture on your part.
     
  4. ShagNappy

    ShagNappy Member

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    An escaped mental patient maybe!
     
  5. Rachel

    Rachel New Member

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    Pappy why do you have so much hate for the lost? Are you happy there are people going to hell everyday? Where's the grace and love for them?
    Why should anyone listen to you when you seem gleeful that people are perishing?
     
  6. Brother Shane

    Brother Shane New Member

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    No where in the Bible does it say that God's children (saints) are sinners. Saints go to Heaven -- Sinners burn in hell.
     
  7. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Paul would disagree with you. Paul said Christ came to save sinners, and said he was the chief of sinners.

    Hmmm, let's see, believe Paul, believe Pappy. I'll go with Paul.
     
  8. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    What does the Bible say??

    Psalm 5:5 DOES say "Thou hatest all workers of iniquity." Now---based on this verse---to say that God does NOT hate would be calling Him a liar---and we don't want to do that, do we??

    So---God DOES hate all workers of iniquity! Its true!!

    But at the same time---when the Bible says in John 3:16 that God so loved the world----THAT'S true, too!!

    I don't believe here---in this tread---that we have come to a full understanding of the word "hate"---neither do I believe we have come to a full understanding of the word, "love"

    The Hebrew word for "hate" found in Psalm 5:5 is the word, "sane"---and it means "to hate, whether people or things" "to be hateful"---"to be alienated". The use of the Hebrew verb here ranges from an intense hatred to simple opposition of persons(for instance---the Bible says that God "resisteth the proud but gives grace to the humble")---it means the desire to have no contact or relationship with another---the opposite of love"----NOTE: A good Hebrew/Greek Lexicon is helpful here---the quotes and definitions are taken from my trusty Zodhiates Study Bible--KJV!

    So--the word from the Word says that God hates sinners!!

    But the word from the Word also says that God loves sinners!!!

    Which statement is true??? They both are!!

    In fact---God demonstrated His hate toward sinners by His abandonment of them found in Genesis 3:23-24 which says, "Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So He drove out the man, and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."---there is God's demonstration of His hatred of sinners!!

    BUT

    At the same time He is "abandoning" the sinner---He is also drawing the sinner TO Himself!! He draws the sinner to Himself and toward His love out of His love for the Lord Jesus Christ!!

    The Bible says that God "demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." God's love was demonstrated through the sacrifical death of the Lord Jesus Christ---who is God's perfect love!!

    When a sinner repents of his sins and receives Jesus as Savior and Lord---He also receives everything that Jesus is!!! And Jesus is God's love demonstrated!!! When we're saved---God just kinda sorta "blankets" us with His love!! We are IN Christ!! When God looks at us---He sees us IN Christ Jesus---and through Christ Jesus!! He sees us through His "beloved" Son!!

    Does God hate the sinner??? You betcha He does!!! But God loves His precious Son more!!! And when the God of Wrath sees us----His hand of hate is STAYED by the hand of His love!!!

    So---the word HATE means that God has abandoned us---we are--as Paul describes in Ephesians 2---"alienated" from Him---and are His enemies!! BUT right at this very moment---the Lord Jesus Christ has made peace with God for me and its because of the fact that the Father loves the Son so much---His hand of hate is STAYED away from me---because of His love for His Son---He is gracefully loving us----for no other reason, friend---the only reason God loves us---is because of His love toward His only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ!! God chooses to love the ones He hates---through and because of Jesus!!!

    [ November 01, 2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
     
  9. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Blackbird, Your post is on the mark in everything except for one: "Sane" doesn't mean "the opposite of love" or "the withholding of love". The word doesn't have any connotation of withholding or reducing of love at all. Reducing or withholding of favoring, preferring, or liking, yes, absolutely. But of love, no.
     
  10. bruren777

    bruren777 New Member

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    1 John 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. NASB

    Matthew 26:28, for this is My blood of the covenant, which nis to be shed on behalf of many for forgiveness of sins. NASB

    Romans, 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. NASB
     
  11. bruren777

    bruren777 New Member

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    I made a typo on Matthew 26:28, even though i thought I proof read it right. Here is the proper writing.

    Matthew 26:28, for this is My blood of the covenant, which is to be shed on behalf of many for forgiveness of sins. NASB
     
  12. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

    There is a perfectly good Hebrew word for sinners, why wasn't it used here? Instead, the Holy Spirit used the word:

    H205
    און
    'âven
    aw'-ven
    From an unused root perhaps meaning properly to pant (hence to exert oneself, usually in vain; to come to naught); strictly nothingness; also trouble, vanity, wickedness; specifically an idol: - affliction, evil, false, idol, iniquity, mischief, mourners (-ing), naught, sorrow, unjust, unrighteous, vain, vanity, wicked (-ness.) Compare H369.

    Either the Holy Spirit made a mistake or He meant something else besides the word "sinners".
     
  13. SeriousOne

    SeriousOne New Member

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    Just a thought (and I trust it is Biblical) In the NT when John 3:16 says "For GOD so loved the WORLD, it is a reference to the fact that GOD was making it clear that HE loves not only Jews but also Gentiles. Until that time GOD's program was focused on Israel and for the most part Gentiles were excluded but with the coming of the Messiah and HIS rejection by HIS "chosen people" HIS love now encompassed Gentiles who did not need to become Jews first to also be included hence the meaning of "world."

    Pappy sadly it sounds as though you revel in the fact that GOD says HE hates all workers of iniquity. Yes, HIS wrath abides on those who are not HIS own however we never know who they are since we cannot see who HE will set HIS love on. And by the way, we are NEVER allowed to hate anyone. Our mission is to present the Gospel in its fullness, including the fact that unbelievers are sinners and in danger of everlasting separation from GOD in the Lake of Fire and we are told in 2 Timothy to do so with patience and compassion. Leave the wrath to GOD [​IMG]
     
  14. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

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    God love Adam and Eve. When they sinned mankind was cursed to age, die and spend eternity seperated from God. The bible says in John 8:44 that we are not naturally the children of God but of the devil.

    I believe God loves the sinner but is repulsed by him. This is why we have Jesus as an advocate. God the Father cannot be around sin, therefore sinner and saved alike.

    Christ holds out salvation to the lost until they reject or get saved. Even saved have to go through Christ because God being perfect STILL cannot stand direct contact with us due to sin. God accepts us on the righteousness of Christ. He will only see us in our present condition through the veil of shed blood. Until we shed ourselves of this body, we will continue to sin. As adopted children God loves us knowing we will one day be as His son. We arent there yet, so God loves the end result(what we will be).
     
  15. SavedbyHISGrace

    SavedbyHISGrace New Member

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    "God hates the sin and the sinner"? Which God do you have in mind here? This is NOT the God of the Holy Bible. Do you not read in 1 Timothy 1:15, where the Apostle Paul says that Jesus "came into the world to save sinners"? If God hates sinners to the extent that He wants to damn them all, then why are you and I saved in the first place? Scripture also says that God does not judge us as our sins deserve, but has compassion on us (something greatly lacking in the Church today). Why would God command that we preach the Gospel to "every creature (human being)" (Mark 16:15), if He does not love them? What do you suppose the "Gospel", or "Good News" is then? That God hates sinners, and wants them all to supper eternal torment? Is this how you would see God? I feel that you are in great need of love yourself, and need to have that hate for sinners removed from your heart. We are NO better than anyone, except by the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we should ALL be damned, which is exactly what we deserve.

    Don't misuse the Scriptures to support your twisted view of Who God is, because judging by what you have written here, I see that you don't really know the heart of God. You want to play with the odd Scripture to support your bent doctrines? Then I suggest you also read Psalm 106:40, where it says: "Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, inasmuch as He abhorred His own inheritance". Can you understand what this says? Do you think that when it says that God "abhors" His people, it means that He loves them?

    We are ALL sinners, even the greatest saint, and NONE of us really pleases God with our daily lives, we all, if we were honest, fall short of His glory daily. Instead of writing about God hating sinners, should we not rather be in prayer before the God of Salvation, and plead that He has mercy on the lost? The whole Bible to me, is God's wonderful plan of Redemption, which is a great testimony to the love, mercy, grace of the great God Whom we serve.
     
  16. SavedbyHISGrace

    SavedbyHISGrace New Member

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    The whole world is made up of only Jews and non Jews, otherwise called "Gentiles". This in itself shows that God's love extends to the whole human race. Otherwise Scriptures like John 3:16 mean nothing.
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I see Pappy's point.

    Yes God loves the world but God's nature is multi-faceted and He is also holy and He will judge the unregenerate.

    Do a search (if you have the tools) on the "workers of iniquity" that God hates and abhors.

    Here are just a few...

    Psalm 5
    4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
    5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
    6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

    Psalm 28
    3 Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.
    4 Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.
    5 Because they regard not the works of the LORD, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up.

    Psalm 37
    1 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
    2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

    Psalm 92
    5 O LORD, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep.
    6 A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this.
    7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
    8 But thou, LORD, art most high for evermore.
    9 For, lo, thine enemies, O LORD, for, lo, thine enemies shall perish; all the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.

    Proverbs 10
    29 The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.
    30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
    31 The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out.
    32 The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable: but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness.

    Proverbs 21:15 It is joy to the just to do judgment: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.

    Matthew 7
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Then there is the wrath of God which is to come upon the earth:
    Revelation 14
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    We must acknowledge the whole counsel of God unpleasant as some of it is.

    I think it's unfair what has been done to Pappy here this day.

    There was a day when men of God preached hell-fire and brimstone and the awakining of the sinner seemed to be more effective than today's preaching.
    Found online in the public domain at http://www.ccel.org/e/edwards/sermons/sinners.html
    From the Christian Classics Ethereal Library ( http://www.ccel.org ) which states the following concerning the works within it
    HankD
     
  18. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    My post earlier should have said "Let me see."
     
  19. Brother Shane

    Brother Shane New Member

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    GOD

    HATES

    SINNERS !!!
     
  20. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    If you're right, then God hates you.
     
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