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Featured God is Completely Sovereign or in Control of EVERYTHING that happens. PT 2

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Is the book of Job about?

    God and man?
    Satan and man?

    God and Satan?

    Who is the pawn in the book?

    Who moves the pawn?
     
  2. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    no

    no

    no

    Chess was not invented yet and was not a motif of the book.

    Chess was not invented yet and was not a motif of the book.
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    whence cometh thou?
     
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Who was in charge when Cain Killed Able? If you say God was then God is responsible for the murder of Able. The truth is Cain acted alone on his own jealous emotions. It's really sad that Calvinist tend to make God out to the God they want instead of the God He is.
    MB
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Calvin wrote Job about Calvin.

    He's just one man.

    The Bible means nothing at all, to anyone.

    Skip it.

    Calvin just wrote Calvin about Calvin and Calvin.

    Be brilliant.
     
  6. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    I see that you've resorted to name calling.

    Before giving up on Job, you might try to read what Job says. It's his comments and God's which are the truth of the book.
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about, "where are you coming from"?

    Job is not about God, Satan, man, or Job?

    Reference something, if you have anything to say.

    Or, maybe somebody else does.

    Whatever.
     
  8. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Job is not about the characters. Job is about the questions raised by Job.

    The narrative is simply there to set up the questions.

    The Book doesn't really answer the big questions raised which are "Why does injustice occur?", "Why do good things happen to bad people?", "Why is there suffering in the world?", " Why do bad things happen to good people.", etc.

    The questions "Is Job about God and man?", "Is Job about Satan and Man?" or " Is Job about God and Satan?" make as much sense as asking "Is Proverbs about Solomon and Agur?" or "Is Proverbs about King Lemuel and his mother?". Yeah, they're in Proverbs, but that is not what it's about.
     
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Who was in charge when the Lord Jesus Christ was killed? Acts of the Apostles 4:27-28 will help you (and 2:23).
    The same applied with Cain and Abel.
     
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  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    sin.
     
  11. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    In the book of Job, God specifically disagrees with this simplistic answer.
     
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You said there was 'No' answer.

    [QUOTE="MartyF, post: 2611851The Book doesn't really answer the big questions raised which are "Why does injustice occur?", "Why do good things happen to bad people?", "Why is there suffering in the world?", " Why do ", etc.
    [/QUOTE]

    Injustice happened to Job and good things happen to bad people and there is there suffering in the world, because there is A God of Creation, who Created Satan who sinned and was left in that estate and God Created Human Beings who God Allowed to sin, also, According to The Good Pleasure of His Will.

    That is the Only God there is.

    God Presents Himself, as THAT God, in Job, and Job, just as ALL ARE COMMANDED, was Given the life in his flesh and his Saved soul, "WORSHIPPED GOD."

    The presence of sin in the natural Estate of ALL CHILDREN of ADAM is the reason there is suffering in the world.

    God rains on the just and the unjust and, at times, allows the wicked to prosper.

    God is THAT God.

    The message of Job is that We Either Worship God in this Life, under any circumstances brought about by sin, or the Devil, or we don't know God, or Christianity through The Holy Spirit, and Jesus Atonement for our SINS, specifically, as an individual, in The New Birth from Above. .
     
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    scripture doesn't say that at all. That would make God an accomplice..Where does scripture say God controls every little thing.
    MB
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    This is a really secular question, void of any concept of God and his creation. You are equating the cause agent as being a chess player who plays with idols of wood, ivory or some other element.
    Such a poorly worded question is filled with the bias of the OP. Therefore the OP should answer his own question.
     
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    You are attempting to create a transitive property of guilt. Your argument is false, therefore your conclusion is false.
     
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    Let us be honest. Job is the first thread ever created on the Baptist Board. There were only a few posters and they all ganged up on Job. Then the Site Owner stepped in to set things right. :Ninja
     
  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    :Rolleyes
    Acts of the Apostles 2:23. 'Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified and put to death.'

    Acts of the Apostles 4:27-28. 'For truly, against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.'

    Yet

    James 1:13. 'Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God;" for God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He Himself tempt anyone. Bur each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.'

    If you cannot reconcile these statements read Romans 11:33-36.
     
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  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Apart from my last post, you might try Matthew 10:29.
     
  19. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    God exists therefore there must be pain and suffering . . . an interesting hypothesis, but I don't think it is true. I see nothing in the Bible stating this type of logic.

    Humans were not created to worship God. Genesis 1:26

    Does God control everything, including Humans, or does God allow things to sin? Which is it? You seem to be confused.

    What is according to the good pleasure of his will is that those who put their faith in Jesus will be adopted. Ephesians 1:5.

    Also wisdom and understanding Ephesians 1:8,9

    Where does it say that suffering, sins, the Satan, etc. are "according the the pleasure of his good will"?

    You mean the god you haven't quoted a single verse of scripture about?

    This isn't from Job.

    The first part of the sentence is from scripture. The second part is not in any scripture I know of.

    I think you have half a verse of scripture now.
     
  20. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Let's look at the parts of Job you are ignoring.

    Job 21:15 CSB
    Who is the Almighty, that we should serve him,
    and what will we gain by pleading with him?

    Job 23:2-5 CSB
    Today also my complaint is bitter.
    His hand is heavy despite my groaning.
    [3] If only I knew how to find him,
    so that I could go to his throne.
    [4] I would plead my case before him
    and fill my mouth with arguments.
    [5] I would learn how he would answer me;
    and understand what he would say to me.

    Is Job acting like the automaton you demand him to be? Is he being commanded? However, Job is not acting in a way of which God disapproves.

    Job 42:7 CSB
    After the LORD had finished speaking to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, for you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.

    God does not disapprove of wrestling his followers.

    The following is not considered truthful of God.

    Job 25:2-6 CSB
    Dominion and dread belong to him,
    the one who establishes harmony in his heights.
    [3] Can his troops be numbered?
    Does his light not shine on everyone?
    [4] How can a human be justified before God?
    How can one born of woman be pure?
    [5] If even the moon does not shine
    and the stars are not pure in his sight,
    [6] how much less a human, who is a maggot,
    a son of man, who is a worm!

    How many times have I read Calvinists say that we are maggots?

    What does Job say?

    Job 7:17 CSB
    What is a mere human, that you think so highly of him
    and pay so much attention to him?

    God thinks highly of us humans.
     
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