1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured God is love

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    18,870
    Likes Received:
    1,946
    Faith:
    Baptist
    JonC

    I offered the james verse.It shows man is created and designed to be an Image bearer.The cursing James mentions should not be in a renewed image bearer.
    The image of God is in fallen man.....yet it has not escaped the noetic effects of the fall. Like a broken mirror...we still can reflect bits and pieces of God's image....the law[decalog] being inborn in all men everywhere.

    The elect are progressively being conformed to the image of Jesus[rom 8:29-30].....The last Adam.1 cor 15
    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    remember...after the fall...men were made after Adam's fallen image

    5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

    2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth

    Do you see this?

    That is why the decalog all ten commandments are put in the new heart of the Christian.
    I see the love of God spoken of in reference to this in romans 13
    8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

    9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


    If man is.....then God’s love would .....due to something ......This would mean that God.......based on......may not accurately describe ...

    JonC.....I do not do so well with this kind of musing.....it looks like a house of cards to me...one thing dependent on another....if one or two things are not correct...it falls apart.....

    I see no one in scripture doing this, and have seen those who reason along this line come to several wrong conclusions. I cannot offer much on this...I know a seminary professor who does...I will see if I can get an article for you to consider...I let him know I am not comfortable with it however
     
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    20,901
    Likes Received:
    2,379
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks. I guess the idea is to find one or two things that are incorrect so that it does fall apart. It does appear to be musing - and since it is me working through my understanding, perhaps it to a great degree musing - I am not the most articulate. Perhaps it is better to study this topic without the input of others for now. I didn’t post it here for debate, but rather to learn from others that have considered the meaning of the “love of God.”



    We could say that fallen man is no longer “in the image of God,” but in the image of Adam (this may be a stretch, however, since “that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural” applies to Adam). It also seems contradicts Genesis 9:6. We could also say that man is created in the image of God yet bears the image of Adam (natural vs. spiritual). But total depravity is not really my question – I do believe that there is nothing in man that would merit righteousness, and that man is completely unwilling to turn towards God – I have a distinctively Calvinistic understanding of depravity.



    My question is how we define the “love of God”? Is it Nygren’s view of agape, or does this view prevent God from loving as Paul defines love (it obviously does in many ways)- is Paul's definition restricted solely to "human love"?
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    18,870
    Likes Received:
    1,946
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No...I am not being clear enough...man is still made in the image of God...but the fall damaged the image so much that it takes regeneration to begin to restore us from bearing the fallen image, to the perfect image which is the lord Jesus Christ.

    Others might be able to help you more...i was not trying to discourage your study....I am just very limited when it comes to this....as i have not seen as much fruit with it.

    I have some things to do...but I will try and track down the article I mentioned for you.
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    20,901
    Likes Received:
    2,379
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you. I'm also going to check out some articles when I get time. I can't access journal articles from here. So, don't put yourself out, but if you do run across anything let me know.

    For much of my life I never bothered to try and define God's love - but it is such a central part of Christianity I simply decided to examine the topic.

    Thanks again.
     
  5. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    3
    I've been reading "The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God" by D.A. Carson. You might find it helpful in your study.

    Sorry that's all I can contribute to the discussion at the moment.
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    20,901
    Likes Received:
    2,379
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks. I like Carson and the title - I was starting to think I was the only one who found the topic difficult :) I will have to order it this weekend.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    49,558
    Likes Received:
    2,552
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My take on humans not being account worthy of the Love of God that nailed Jesus to the Cross is to direct us to see that its Gods Love at the Cross for sinners who deserved none of that!

    trying to get us away from thinking that God sent jesus to die due to us having worth, that He saw us as deserving that, or that he had to doit in order to have love expressed

    IF God had chosen to do nothing towards mankind, and gave us whatwe all deserved, would He not still be a God of Love?

    For God did not need to make us to fulfill or complete Himself, but as objects of His love while never deserving it, that is Agape love!
     
    #27 Yeshua1, Sep 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2013
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    20,901
    Likes Received:
    2,379
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ is the best example of God’s love. God loved us, even while we were sinners, and died for us. Even if we could merit righteousness by our own acts (which we couldn’t) we could never think that God died for us because of our worth. You are right, we always need to keep this in mind – we are not needed to make God complete.

    I will note that agape does not always refer to a special gift love or divine love. Before it was used in the NT it had been used in the Septuagint to refer to the love of God. Before it was used in the Septuagint it had already existed in secular Greek to refer to making a choice for the good of another (not a compelled type of love). For example in 1 Jn 2:15-16 we are told not to love the world or anything in the world. Here agape is not defined as a type of love separated from human love (although we often do view agape as divine love).

    But what I question here is if God does love, as Nygren’s (and Pink) would suggest, without really loving us.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    49,558
    Likes Received:
    2,552
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Does He love all persons equally, or does he just Love His Covenant peoples?
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    20,901
    Likes Received:
    2,379
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That’s a good question.

    Here are my thoughts: In the OT, God’s love is shown as being focuses especially on the patriarchs and then Israel. But the Bible also gives clear indications that God’s love extended beyond Israel. I believe that God’s act of creation substantiates that He loves all. His love is not inconsistent with his judgment, so I do believe that God loves the world, all men, even though the world is condemned.

    God’s love has in it both particularism and universalism. He has a particular love for his people. I don’t know that I would say he loves some more than others, but certainly he loves those he claims as his own in a more particular manner.
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    20,901
    Likes Received:
    2,379
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have started this book - thank you for suggesting it. This is extremely helpful.
     
Loading...