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Featured God never designed or purposed to Save ALL men ever born.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jan 13, 2022.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Man having fallen into the realm of Sin and Death in sinful rebellion against his Creator.
    God who is rich in mercy designs to save a multitude out or fallen mankind.
    He elects the objects of saving love and ordains all the means to accomplish that designed redemption.
    Not one more, or not one less person is going to be saved that those the Father has given to the Son.
     
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  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Amen!
     
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  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "We hold that the question of the extent of Christ's redemptive and atoning work is of the utmost moment, both in relation to the Lord and His people; since to assert that He redeemed sinners who will be lost, and expiated sins which will be eternally unforgiven, not only impugns the character of His completed work, but deprives the saints of the strong consolation which the knowledge of a certain salvation is calculated to impart."

    - William Styles, A Manual of Faith and Practice: Designed for Young and Enquiring Christians
     
    #3 KenH, Jan 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
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  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    " 'Tis not one more nor yet one less,
    Than God the Father chose,
    And these are safe, and must be safe,
    Though earth and hell oppose.

    For them in Heaven He intercedes,
    And as their great High Priest He pleads,
    And all for whom He died shall prove
    The strength and glory of His love."

    - William Styles, A Manual of Faith and Practice: Designed for Young and Enquiring Christians
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    When Jesus is cited to teach, ". . . This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. . . ." The lost Judas was included. Luke 22:19-22. The irregular churches deny this.
     
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  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    as usual, THEOLOGY, but NOT Bible!

    John 3:16-18 says that what you say is 100% WRONG!
     
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  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    this sort of language has done MUCH damage to the Church of Jesus Christ!
     
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  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Were, you ( singular ), given to the Son before or after you were born of your mother?

    Why did the man (singular) sin?

    Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Did it have anything to do with that one above?

    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

    Was the devil a sinner before the man was created?

    Was the man created because the devil was a sinner with sinful works?

    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, <Why?) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Tim 3:16
    Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:14

    For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    Does this effect the theology of the OP? I am not sure but think maybe.
     
    #9 percho, Jan 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  10. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    John would disagree with that view.

    John presents the only full presentation, and Judas left prior to the institution breaking the bread and drinking the juice representing the sacrifice of the Christ.
     
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Judas left after the supper was ended per John's account. As according to Luke's account Judas was at the table. Luke 22:20-21.
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    so according to you, the Bible has contradictions? Read your own theologiand, Gill and Henry, both are clear that Judas took the Lord's Supper, as does the passage in Luke, which I have shown. Jesus Christ Shed His Blood for Judas
     
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  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Is there a sense in which ALL of creation receives benefit/blessings of the death of Christ? Of course. So, if one says He died ON BEHALF (sadly, translated "for" from the Greek instead of "on behalf of") they are correct.

    He died INSTEAD (again, translated simply "for" in many English translations but from the Greek meaning "instead of") the elect of the Father is also correct. Those whom Christ died to atone/take away their sin will be saved (or God is a liar) and not one lost.

    Amazing that seeing an English word "for" can have so many meanings (more than 54). Confusing. Perhaps why God chose the precise Greek text to narrow down the meaning.
     
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  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are so wrong!
    Luke wrote, ". . . having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, . . ." Luke 1:3. So what Luke wrote in Luke 20:20-21 was in order by the Holy Spirit, ". . . from the very first . . . ." Literally "from above." Same word as "again" used in John 3:3.
     
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Then according to you John 3.16-18 is wrong :eek:
     
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    That statement does not require Judas to be included.
     
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  17. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    So sad. English is not that hard to understand. If you cannot make a cogent defense of what YOU believe, why make up a false report about me?

    Jesus died for (on behalf of) ALL mankind, Jew and Gentile.
    Jesus died for (instead of) those whose sin He actually paid for by His sacrifice.
     
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  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    says your theology, not in the Bible, as John 3:16-18 is clear. The Death of Jesus is conditional on the sinner repenting and believing
     
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  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does. In any case, it is didactically true. To say it is not, is intellectually dishonest.
     
    #19 37818, Jan 13, 2022
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  20. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    You keep mentioning Jn 3:16-18 and I'm convinced you operate under a false understanding.

    Baptists (you ARE one) believe that salvation is of God's work, yet you insert it a FAILURE unless someone repents and believes (and who know what else can be added by some delusional Baptist types - I've seen a whole list). If God saves by grace, what do YOU "do" (other than sin making that grace necessary)? It i

    Perhaps read Eph 2:8-9 and then tell me what "I MUST DO" (works) that is condition for salvation?
     
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