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God The Father, God The Son

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    In this very small Letter in the New Testament, John's Third, we have a very powerful testimony to the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, and His complete equality with The Father.

    "Anyone who transgresses, and abides not in the teaching of Christ, has not God. He that abides in the teaching of Christ, this has both the Father and the Son" – verse 9

    Note very closely the language here. In the first instance, those who transgress by not remaining in the Doctrine of Christ, are said not to possess “God”. On the other hand, those who do so remain in the Doctrine of Christ, are said to possess “both the Father and the Son”. We would have expected John to have written, “this has God”, which would correspond with the previous sentence, where he spoke of those who transgress, as having “not God”. But, this he does not do. While using the Name God, in the first instance. John then expands on this by saying that BOTH the Father AND the Son, are this one use of God! Equally.

    Let us examine this from the Greek text. Interestingly, the use of “Theos” here is without the definite article. Would any dare render this in English as “god”?. John then says in the sentence that we are looking at, “kai ton petera kai ton huion echei”. = “has both the Father and the Son”. The first use of the particle, kai, has the meaning “both”, where those referred to must be taken together, and without any distinction. And the second use, its common one, “and”. We then have the case, where each of the nouns in the sentence, here, Father and Son, is with the definite article, “ton” (the). This, according to the strict rules of Greek grammar, clearly shows that the two Persons are not one and the same. The Father, as a Person, is not the same as the Son as a Person. They are distinct Persons.

    The fact that John uses the definite article (ton) with The Father (ton petera) and The Son (ton huion), is done for the purpose to show “distinction” of the Two Persons is meant.

    While the grammar of this sentence clearly shows that the Father and the Son are indeed separate Persons, at the same time, the use of theos in this verse without the article, is done so for exactly the same reason as in John 1:1. In both cases, the use of theos is speaking of the “being” or “nature” of those referred to, as in John 1:1, “the Word”; and here in 2 John 9, of the Father and the Son. The Greek grammar shows the Father and the Son as Individual Persons, yet their Unity as God is also established.

    Similar language can be seen in John 10:30, where Jesus says: “I and the Father are one”. The plurality of Persons is clear from the use of “esmen”, which in the Greek is in the masculine gender, and plural in number. “we are”, not simply, “are”. Which is also seen in the use of “I”, as distinguished from “the Father”, which is with the Greek article, “ho”. However, the use of “one” is in the neuter gender, hen, literally, “one thing”, or, “one being”. So, the text has the meaning, that, We, Who are distinct as Two separate Persons, and yet one with regard to our being, or nature.

    The evidence is very clear to the fact, as taught in Scripture, that the Father and the Son, though clearly separate as Persons, are yet equal as Deity. In which case neither could be the “source” of the other’s life or being. Nor could either one exist before the other. All of which is also very true with regard to the Holy Spirit.
     
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    John 10:30
    “I and the Father are one.”

    John 14:7
    “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

    John 14:9
    Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father'?

    John 14:10
    “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

    John 14:11
    “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

    John 14:20
    “In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

    John 14:21
    “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

    1John 2:24
    As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

    1John 4:13
    By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

    A person might ask what teaching, what command, what was heard from the beginning? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Acts of the Apostles 16:31
     
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Great texts! But you have missed the point in what I have said in the OP. This verse in 2 John 9 (not 3 John), is very clear that Both the Father and Jesus Christ are called "GOD" in the same sentence, with the same meaning! There is no way that anything other than the Deity and Equality of Jesus with the Father, can be seen in this.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, I did not mean to detract from what you said, but to add background. Not only is Christ in us, but the Father is in us, and we are in Christ and therefore in the Father. And why do we know this? Because the Holy Spirit abides in us!! Sounds like a Trinity to me.
     
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    sure I understand. I did the study in the OP years ago, when speaking with JW's, who insist that Jesus Christ is not "God" in the same way the Father is. 2 John 9, I believe anwers them!
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Jewish leaders understood Jesus claiming to be God, as tried to stone Him!
     
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