God wants to save everyone without exception?

I Timothy 2:4 says in the KJV, 'Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.'

The Greek uses the word, {thelei} which Dr. James Strong says that it means: 'to determine as an active option from a subjective impulse; and by implication meaning to delight in, desire, to be disposed toward, or to intend toward'

Almighty God in the Person of Jesus has determined within Himself by way of an active option to be 'delighted' with His ruling and or decree that all persons be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The fact that all will not come nor will they receive Christ, nevertheless, it is His disposition that all human beings become saved and receive eternal life with Him.

This in no way suggests or even hints at the fact that He is weak in Himself by way of His will to bring all human beings to repentance and faith. God has decreed, in eternity past, that men and women have the option to either turn from their sins, or to remain in them and receive their just dues at the Great White Throne Judgment. {Revelation 20;11}

This may not be Arminian theology to the fullest extent and it is not, for sure, Calvinistic theology. It is, moreover, Biblical theology and Christianity.

Dr. Berrian

 

That is correct. I happen to believe that the word should be translated "willing" not "wishing", but both support the Calvinist position -- one simply supports it more strongly (willing).

As I pointed out above, the context tells you to whom the ANY and ALL refer.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any [of us, the beloved] should perish, but that all [of us, the beloved] should come to repentance.

In other words, God will take as long as it takes to bring in ALL of the elect. He will not bring things to a close until His entire will in this regard is accomplished. One can still translate the word "wishing" and it works perfectly for Calvinism - it's simply not as strong a statement.

This only becomes a problem for Arminianism if the word is properly translated "willing", because Arminians want the "any" and "all" to refer to "any person without exception" and "all people without exception". In that case, if God is not willing that any without exception perish, and someone DOES perish, then God is not powerful enough to accomplish His own will. </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry Nick, this translation doesn't make a lick of since within your dogma. Why would God need to be "patient" or "longsuffering" with his elect? What does he have to wait for? He can't be waiting for their repentance or their faith because HE is the one that irresistably causes that to happen and it wouldn't make any sense that He would need to patiently wait for himself to do that which he rebukes and condemns all other men for not doing. Calvinism is the most absurd doctrine when you really look at from a biblical perspective.

Plus, there are other verses such as Matt. 23:37 and Tim 2:4 that support the idea that God doesn't desire any to perish.

 

I Timothy 2:4 says in the KJV, 'Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.'

The Greek uses the word, {thelei} which Dr. James Strong says that it means: 'to determine as an active option from a subjective impulse; and by implication meaning to delight in, desire, to be disposed toward, or to intend toward'

Almighty God in the Person of Jesus has determined within Himself by way of an active option to be 'delighted' with His ruling that all persons be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The fact that all will not come nor will they receive Christ, nevertheless, it is His disposition that all human beings become saved and receive eternal life with Him.

This in no way suggests or even hints at the fact that He is weak in Himself by way of His will to bring all human beings to repentance and faith. God has decreed, in eternity past, that men and women have the option to either turn from their sins, or to remain in them and receive their just dues at the Great White Throne Judgment. {Revelation 20:11}

Berrian, Th.D.

 

The concept of 'not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance,' in II Peter 3:9 uses the word, {boullmenos} Gr. which Dr. Strong says, means (not willing, not to be disposed toward, or minded to, or not intending.)

This Greek word above is a present middle participle. My grammar is weak in that I do not know what the 'present middle participle' means. Do we have any English teachers who know the exact meaning behind this?

The general meaning cannot be missed. The New Century Version says:

'He does not want anyone to be lost, but He wants all people to change their hearts and lives.'

The New International Version says:

'He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.'

A better explanation comes from Dr. Kenneth S. Wuest, the Greek scholar, who says in his translation:

' . . . but is longsuffering toward us, not having it as His considered will that certain should perish, but that all should come to repentance.'

Again, what does the present middle participle suggest in English grammar with reference to 'not willing' that any should perish?

Berrian, Th.D.

 

There is nothing here to indicate God is anywhere speaking of the elect in regards to wanting men saved. In fact, the first part indicates all men -- then it goes into saying God desires that all people come to salvation. The "ransom for all" does not state the ransom is just for the elect or even imply it. There is no reason to believe that these terms using "all" do not mean "all."

These are the meanings for #3956 "all" in v. 1 ("all people" or "all men"), in v.4 ("all men") and in v.6 where it says "ransom for all"

I think "all men" is pretty plain.

 

npetreley I am back at your other thread waiting for the fur.

 

Marcia,

You are right. God's message was and is toward the average reader and not only to scholastic scholars with mystery meanings and interpretations.

The Greek word, 'all' means every person. Christ's ransom is for all sinners, [I Timothy 2:6] because ' . . . all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.' [Romans 3:23]

Christ's atonement is for every sinner living within this cosmos/world. [I John 2:2] God did not tell John to write, 'only for the sins of the elect.' Sinners will be without excuse at the judgment, because He made the way to Heaven possible for every depraved sinner. Through it all, God's Divine justice will remain intact. He is the impartial Lord God. [Deuteronomy 10:17 & Romans 2:11]

Regarding only His elect and not all sinners would be prejudicial. [Deuteronomy 10:17]