Goodbye Ron Paul

This debate about Ron Paul and abortion is not new here at the Baptist Board.

This debate about Ron Paul and abortion is not new here at the Baptist Board, Martin.

Perhaps you remember it from a few months ago.

Let me establish the GOP position and then I will quote Ron Paul on the Libertarian position from your link above, Martin.

In 1980, Reagan put in the GOP platform that the GOP was calling for a constitutional amendment to protect the life of the unborn child. That call for a constitutional amendment has been repeated in 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004.

However, Ron Paul opposes the Reagan plank. As you yourself link, Martin, Ron Paul says:

I am also the prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life. This is a practical, direct approach to ending federal court tyranny which threatens our constitutional republic and has caused the deaths of 45 million of the unborn.

There is quite a difference, as you can see. If the federal courts can no longer rule on this issue, then liberal states are free to continue the practice of abortion. Ron Paul has a live and let live program on abortion.

As for Keyes, he did not practice what he preached. He just finished a political criticism about Hillary's moving from Arkansas to New York to run for the Senate when Keyes himself moved from Maryland to Illinois to run for the Senate.

Now on the other Libertarian issues such as same-sex marriage, prostitution, and drugs, the Libertarians such as Ron Paul have long said live and let live. Ron Paul would repeal federal laws against drugs and against interstate traffic in prostitution. As for same-sex marriage, the same problem as abortion happens if you allow the states to decide because some states will legalize same-sex marriage; the federal government took a role in defining marriage over 100 years ago when they told the Mormons that they could have only one wife or else the federal government would take their property in Utah and other western states.

Nevada has already legalized prostitution in all areas of Nevada except Las Vegas. You would think that Ron Paul would hold this up as an example of Libertarianism in action.

Toleration of small crimes does not work in the big cities like Indianapolis. You have to go after all crimes and when small crimes decrease so does the overall crime rate.

Finally, Ron Paul is against the death penalty, and Scripture commands that murderers be put to death.

 

That is all well and good Martin. I am as much in favor of states' rights (theoretically) as anyone. But as the left-wing pressure groups have proved over and over; if states are enforcing laws that they don't like, they will go to court and have them overturned. Not so long ago, most states had laws against flag-burning, against abortion, against adultery, against sodomy. Activists filed suit and had them all overturned. Whatever you might think of such state laws, they were swept away. Right-wing activist groups have finally learned their lesson and have begun fighting the progressives on their own turf. It's fine to say that Ron Paul will return everything to the local and state level. But he will be spitting in the wind if he tries.

 

Ron Paul, way outside of the mainstream.

Unfortunately, Martin, Ron Paul cannot have his cake and eat it too.

Ron Paul sounds like a Democrat in that he is against abortion. He just thinks that every state has the right to choose and it is not a federal matter.

However, he has never wanted to do the one thing that is absolutely necessary to protect the life of the unborn. That is, a constitutional amendment must be passed to protect the life of the unborn, as insisted upon by Ronald Reagan in 1980. This has been a Republican plank since 1980.

If Ron Paul has his way, no one would ever be executed for murder. Ron Paul disagrees with Scripture on this point.

As for same-sex marriage, I should think that the IRS would be very interested in seeing that no more tax exemptions were passed out and so the federal government does have a right to say that marriage is one man and one woman if only for tax purposes.

Libertarians want a live and let live society such as the Netherlands or such as Canada. Libertarians advocate the legalization of drugs, as if our society did not already have enough drug addicts....

 

Salty, I just realized that you live in upstate New York....

Salty, I just realized that you live in upstate New York....

Ron Paul is against all capital punishment, Salty. He is just outside of the mainstream GOP. He wants to set aside the Reagan plank on pro-life because it calls for a constitutional amendment, and yet he tries to pass himself off as a Reagan Republican. If there is one thing that Reagan will be remembered for above all else it is his insistence that we need a constitutional amendment to protect the life of the unborn child.

Here is what Scripture says:

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

 

You bring about some good points Martin. I am disappointed that CMG keeps making these assertions on Ron Paul without any sources to back up his statements.

 

So, you want all or nothing? There is no chance whatsoever thatthere will be a constitutional amendment passed to end abortion. You will never get the votes needed for such in the Congress, nor will you get 3/4's of the states to pass such.

If abortion could be ended entirely within many states, and severely curtailed in the majority, I would see that as the biggest victory, and the only plausible one, against abortion in history.

Once again, Ron Paul has a realistic solution to a huge problem and has demonstrated an actual voting record to bring about such a solution, while others are paying lip service to their gullible constituents by issuing pipe dream statements. And the masses of so called "conservatives" sure seem dumb enough to buy what's being fed to them by their masters.

Ron Paul is a real-deal conservative and has the vote of this lifelong Republican. I only wish more people would shed the rose-colored glasses of neoconservatism and rejoin the conservative movement that was once so popular.

 

You guys must be kidding.

You guys must be kidding.

You want to abandon 30 years of Republican work started by Reagan himself in order to endorse a former Libertarian for the Republican ticket, and this Libertarian has never endorsed the full Republican platform.

You say that you alone are conservatives and you want to discard Ronald Reagan.

As for your point, Martin, that I never answered you on capital punishment--I did. I said that Ron Paul does not want a single murderer ever executed. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

The GOP abolished slavery. We didn't say that it was states rights--we passed constitutional amendments giving full citizenship to Africa-Americans. Now we are going to pass a constitutional amendment giving full protection to the unborn child.

As for same-sex marriage, this is not a word game about God and gays. This is a nitty-gritty point that we do not have to tolerate same-sex marriage like Spain, Canada, Belgium, and the Netherlands just to please some Libertarian principle of tolerance and live and let live. We outlawed polygamy federally by intimidation and we will outlaw same-sex marriage by federal law or constitutional amendment, if necessary. And the Libertarians and Ron Paul can tally the homosexual and lesbian votes in their column on election day. And Ron Paul can fill his coffers with donations from rich homosexuals and rich lesbians. That is what this point is all about--money and votes.

 

Ron Paul's chances of winning the GOP nomination and the presidency are next to nothing, cmg.

It would be fine with me, but it won't happen.

 

Ron Paul on abortion and rights of the unborn child:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/

Ron Paul on Gay Marriage:
http://spaceramblings.blogsome.com/2007/06/05/ron-pauls-oppositio

Ron Paul is not against Capital punishment at a State level.
Fromhttp://jointhefightforfreedom.com/node/47

Like Reagan , Ron Paul is for lesser intervention of Federal government into State government.:thumbs:

 

The end of the Reagan era?

The end of the Reagan era?

It seems that a young group of people aligned with former Libertarian presidential candidate Ron Paul, who merely caucuses with the GOP in order to use the GOP machinery to get elected in Texas although he was never slated originally, want to water down and discard key Reagan doctrines and still claim to be the sole heirs of Reagan, Ken and everybody else.

Furthermore, they seem to believe that to be pro-life is as good as what Reagan believed. That is just not true. Bill Clinton may say that he is as pro-life as Ron Paul, but the Democrat Party has had a pro-choice plank in their platform for many years. Reagan distinguished himself from all others on this issue by standing for a constitutional amendment to protect the life of the unborn child from the federal court, such as the Supreme Court which allowed these murders by signing their names on the papers legalizing the murder of the unborn, and for a constitutional amendment to protect the life of the unborn child from state governments, as we have seen that a state like Nevada has adopted the Libertarian idea of legalizing prostitution in rural areas and such a state as Nevada might legalize abortion under a Libertarian opinion such as Ron Paul constantly states.

Reagan wrote the plank calling for a constitutional amendment. If it has taken this long and has not been passed, that is not a reason to abandon the hope of saving the lives of unborn children by live and let live policies, Ken. Afterall, it took a very long time to end slavery in both Britian and the USA. In the case of slavery, the Supreme Court again sided with Satan in saying that men were objects and property in the Dred Scott case, and the states were allowed to make up their own minds on the issue until the GOP.

 

Not me. Ronald Reagan was a libertarian himself:

"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." - www.reason.com/news/show/29318.html

 

As usual, Martin sees and articulates the truth of the matter. Why cmg can not grasp this is beyond me. I guess he's just so in love with the Republican Party leadership that he won't take the blinders off to realize that they have only given talking points on conservative principles with little or no action to back up their words. "Party platform" is not enough for me. I want real action and real, tangible solutions to our nation's problems.

CMG, do you really hold the belief that all of our woes can only be solved by the federal government getting even more involved in our lives? And you say that is conservatism? If Roe v. Wade was reversed, which is a real possibility, then I predict we would immediately see abortion completely outlawed in half the states, and severely limited in many others. And you say we are abandoning the conservative position on this? We want a real solution that can have a serious impact on saving hundreds of thousands of innocent lives immediately, while you want to keep listening to pipe dreams about constitutional amendments that will never happen without full-blown civil war in this country, and yet, we are the ones who have abandoned conservatism?

You need to seriously examine your position and realize that hoping only for a constitutional amendment which may or may not occur sometime in the next 100 years or so, is tantamount to allowing the continued murder of over one million babies a year, simply because you won't settle for or allow for anything less.

Dr. Paul has real convictions, continuously votes to uphold the constitution, and has real solutions to our problems, which is more than can be said for the vast majority of Republicans in Congress.

 

[SIZE=-1]"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion." - [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]George Washington, Farewell Address[/SIZE]