Grace through faith, works or a combination

Amen!

 

This post by freeatlast is an excellent example of the errors one can fall into when Scriptures are taken out of context and multitudes of Scriptures are totally ignored.

 

So someone comes forward and repents what does the average church do with that person?

The one thing they usually don't so is to meet with that person personally for about two years teaching them to obey God and make more disciples.

 

freeatlast said:

I am sorry, but I beg to respectfully disagree. We are not saved (I presume you mean eternal salvation) by those two things. We are saved by the blood of the Lamb of Glory and of Calvary.

Repentance towards God and faith towards the Lord Jesus Christ are acts which only a regenerated heart can perform. It results in conversion and evidenced by a gracious life.

It is something arrived at by correct doctrine and teaching, that is borne out by Paul's statement to the disciples in Acts 20:21 and by the writer to the Hebrews in Hebrews 6:1.

Jeremiah 29:13 is not addressed to spiritually dead sinners, but to wayward, sinning people of God.

Again, no.

When God decided to save sinners, He entered into a covenant with Himself, and Himself only, meaning the Three who are One. Salvation is all about HIM and His mercy, and all OF Him. Remember what the Scripture said:

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.......But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6,8).

The atonement for all whom God intended to save, is over, done, finished business, and applied already to all His children who will be quickened by the Spirit.

Hebrews 9:12 says:

I have no quarrel with the main gist of what you are saying, that the child of God ought to sanctify himself unto God.

But, I feel we ought to teach salvation within its proper context. Purely of grace, and mercy from a compassionate and loving God, with no pre-requirements.

 

freeatlast said:

quote:
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We are saved by repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
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In agreement with Craig and Pinoy, we are saved by FAITH ALONE in the shed blood and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Repentance was necessary under the "Gospel of the Kingdom" during Christ's earthly ministry BUT NOT under the "Gospel of the Grace of God".

Freeatlast, reaching back into the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke for your "repentance" doctrine is wrong division (see 2 Timothy 2:15). You won't find "repent" or "repentance" associated with salvation within the doctrines FOR the body of Christ.

 

No, we are saved by grace through faith. The atonement of Christ does not save us; it only reconciles us to God so that we can be saved.

Eph. 2:8. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9. not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

This is very wrong.

• Repentance toward God is NOT dependent upon regeneration. Very many people in the Old Testament repented, but they had not been regenerated.

• Conversion is not subsequent to regeneration—regeneration is conversion!

Acts 20: 20. "and how I kept back nothing that was helpful, but proclaimed it to you, and taught you publicly and from house to house,
21. "testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb. 6:1. Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

These verses do NOT bear out that anything is arrived at by correct doctrine and teaching. And neither does church history, for we find very many people being regenerated in spite of very wrong doctrine and teaching. And Peter’s view of the means of, and requirements for, salvation, are very different from yours:

37. Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?''
38. Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39. "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.''

Repentance in the Old Testament is NOT preceded by regeneration, and it certainly is not in Acts 2:38. And as early as Matthew 3 we find:

1. In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
2. and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!''
3. For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: `Prepare the way of the Lord, make His paths straight.' ''

John was NOT speaking here to those who had been regenerated.

 

Dr. Bob,

Your three part lesson is profound. Thank you for confirming what my internet pastor just taught me. Here is a paraphrase of what he stated that corrects my previous post:

"REPENTANCE is absolutely connected with the gospel of the grace of God by Paul's own statement(Acts 20:21). Faith alone does save, but there is repentance PREVIOUS to our belief, and AFTERWARDS which can be shown by works (Acts 26). The goodness of God LEADETH thee to repentance (Romans 2). Repenting is SIMPLY changing your mind about something. To get saved, YOU DO change your mind. You change it UNDER CONVICTION by the Holy Spirit, for He REPROVES of sin (John 16). He straightens you OUT about it. He SHOWS YOU that you are wrong, and you TURN ABOUT IN YOUR HEART. You believe the GOSPEL, and then are saved (Romans 10, Ephesians 1). You THEN can produce works OF REPENTANCE which show that you have faith. (Acts 26, Titus 3, Ephesians 2). They did in Acts 19."

Your assessment that there is only one gospel which is the "everlasting gospel" is correct in PURPOSE but incorrect when considering CONTENT. The gospel preached during Christ's earthly ministry, the gospel of the kingdom, is quite different in CONTENT from Paul's gospel of the grace of God. An examination of WHAT is PREACHED FOR SALVATION reveals the difference.

And, as far as any gospel being the "everlasting gospel", let's examine what the scriptures have to say concerning that gospel. Here is the ONLY place in the scriptures where the term, "everlasting gospel" is found:

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

And the verse that follows states what is being preached:

Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The CONTENT of that gospel differentiates it from both the "gospel of the kingdom" and the "gospel of the grace of God".

 

You are again confusing the atonement of Christ with salvation. Without grace and faith, there is no salvation in spite of the atonement. I’m sorry, but your error is a very serious and grievous one.

 

I do not find in the Scripture that God “gives” repentance. The Holy Spirit convicts one of sin both before and after regeneration. As I posted above, repentance is NOT dependent upon regeneration. And it is not dependent upon God’s grace or any other kind of divine enablement. Barbaric heathen people very frequently repent; it is not such a great feat that God’s help is required to do so. However, God may, at His discretion, give additional grace to overcome temptation. I have personally ministered to many people whose experiences in giving up alcohol, tobacco, sports, and other vices varied from extreme ease to extreme difficulty. (Most people seemed to need very generous portions of God’s grace to give up Monday Night Football, but I have personally witnessed barbaric heathen people give it up to have more family time).

And most assuredly, salvation in NOT a prerequisite for either repentance or faith. There are many hundreds examples in the Old Testament where persons who were NOT saved excised both repentance and faith, and I personally did a whole lot of both before I knew who Jesus was.

 

This guy must have read the Bible! I find that to be very refreshing! And he not only read it, he understood what it says! Remarkable!

No, I am not being sarcastic. The pastor has his head screwed on straight.

 

Regeneration is not conversion. By your own definitions you topple over. One defined repentance as a change of mind, is one born again by a change of mind ?

John 1:13 speaks of those who received Christ as having done so because they were born from above by the will of God, and not by the will of the flesh, or of men.

Conversion is a conscious that can lead from being unrepentant to repentant, regeneration is of the Holy Spirit, a one time act.

Conversion is a series of events in a person's life. Peter was among those who received Christ and confessed him as Lord, yet Christ, in a moment of Peter's weakness said, 'when thou art converted' !

Paul in his letter to his protege, Timothy, spoke of repentance as being from God, in 2 Timothy 2:25 he writes:

To the Philippians he wrote:

The unregenerated man will not repent a repentance that leadeth to Godly sorrow no matter how eloquent the preaching because he does not have God in him working to do and to will of God's good pleasure.

He can convert and he can reform but his conversion and reformation will find no merit before God because it is outside of Christ, and the child of God is accepted of God only in the beloved. Indeed, these are they who will claim to have done mighty works in God's name but they will be called 'unknowns' in the last day.

 

Repentance does not come from God; it is an action by man toward God. It may or may not be occasioned by an action of God. And all the theology in the world does not change the fact that repentance very often occurs prior to regeneration and is usually not followed by regeneration except in a Christian context.

Acts 20:18. And when they had come to him, he said to them, "You yourselves know, from the first day that I set foot in Asia, how I was with you the whole time,
19. serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials which came upon me through the plots of the Jews;
20. how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house,
21. solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

But how about Acts 5:31?

Acts 5:29. But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.
30. "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.
31. "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32. "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

When read in the context of the history of the Jewish people and their relationship with God, I believe that it is clear that God raised up Jesus and exalted Him to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior to grant to the Jewish people an opportunity for repentance and subsequently the forgiveness of their sins, but the Jewish people as a whole rejected the opportunity. Had God actually granted to them repentance itself, the Jewish people would be a saved people.

 

I get to disagree with Dr. Bob - man I havent had that opportunity since good ol Mergel!

Dr. Bob one quick question cause I gotta dash and actually make up a lesson plan for tonite

Does God ever ask rhetorical questions?

 

Well Dr. Bob - I disagree with #2

you've prolly read the odd post of mine - not that they are any literary masterpieces, but i try....

you should know my view by now - but you get busy i understand

Simply put fallen man has the ability to not sin - its very rarely if at all used - However they completely lack the ability to do good!

Fallen man can repent and have faith in the wrong things and for the wrong reasons but they still possess the ability - its not until God calls do they gain the option or choice to choose God

 

Yes, sin is an option for anyone, but so is doing good. Regeneration is NOT a prerequisite for doing good works out of a love for others. Calvin got hung up on the hyperbolic statements in Romans and became blinded to the world around him, including the Holy Scriptures, and led many others down the same path of Biblical ignorance and confusion.