Greatest enemy of the Christian faith

Of course. They lie in the same bed just at opposite ends.

 

They are all very good answers, but I guess it was a question of opinions on which is greater. Everyone has some very good points. I'm new to the forum and I'm still trying to get a feel of definitions and terms.

Anyway, though Satan is the biggest, active enemy that I can think of, I didn't vote that way. IMO, accepting that all ways lead to God, regardless of the only way the Bible teaches, is the biggest teacher of false safety and is the ruination (or attempted ruination) of the truth.

That's how I voted, but I think all those listed in the poll and great enemies of the faith!

 

Ah yes, sometimes known as the Centric Two-Step.
</font>[/QUOTE]Simple, neither major party has
enough clout to get elected president
without drifing toward the center.
But in addition to this political spectrum
in the USofA, there is a religious spectrum.
The two spectrums use mostly the same
terms: like liberal, and moderate.
But the political 'conservative' become in
the religious spectrum 'fundamentalist'.

Strangely, I've got a pastor who is
a religious fundamentalist but a political
liberal (he believes that it is the duty
of the state /not the church/ to take care
of those who need taking care of).

So I guess outside blaming everyting on
Satan (which gives him way too much credit)
the MAIN cause of a problem is what I call
the BLACK AND WHITE mindset: everything
is Black and white - gery is out, colorization
is out - everything is Black or White.

To the B&W (black and white) person the
political spectrum seems to be conservative
and liberal. To the B&W person, the religous
spectrum seems to be fundamentalist and libera.
I've seen on the very pages of
BB a description of this, if you belive in
any one of the 12 Liberal beliefs, then you
are Liberal (and have to believe all 12
of the Liberal beliefs).

 

For the most part that is exactly the way it is and the voting records on the hill reflect that polarity.

Until an election year and then it's hard to tell who's fish and who's foul (That is if you listen to the campaign rhetoric rather than analyze the voting record).


HankD

 

For the most part that is exactly the way it is and the voting records on the hill reflect that polarity.
</font>[/QUOTE]Don't you think that if someone comes down the middle that polarization will likely be erased or minimized?

It seeems as though Bush gave many right answers but I don't see much difference. He told the American people he was against abortion but have things changed? He comes along with WMD and now the people do not trust him. It seems like abortion was a big issue for Christians and things have not changed on what the Christians voted for.

It seems the only thing which has changed is that the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer. The rich have been given more power and the midle class and working pooor less.

Years ago a starting teacher was making the same amount as my dad who was working for a utility company for about ten years. Today a starting teacher makes less then half of what that same job pays at the utility company.

Today we have cities who cannot get teachers, policemen, firemen, doctors and pharmacists because the pay is so low compared to the cost of living there. Some jobs have been posted for more than two years and nobody has been hired.

[ December 26, 2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: gb93433 ]

 

Teacher Salaries are not the reason you cannot get teachers. I make good money working for the Public Schools. Many times, it is the frustration about the way the districts are run and the lack of respect at all levels (starting at home from the parents, moving to the kids and on up to the administration) which are the reasons you can't get people to teach.

Joseph Botwinick

 

As to the question of Bush, the majority of Americans re-elected him for the following reasons:

1. They didn't want a traitorous coward running and losing the war on terror. They wanted Bush to win it...and win it he is doing by utilizing the greatest military in the world.

2. They wanted pro-life conservatives on the SC. So far, we are 2 for 2 in his nominations. Miers doesn't count because he saw the light with public pressure. The talk is that Ginsburg may well retire in the next year or two and then we will see the fight of the century tipping the balance of the court in favor of life.

3. They like the way he makes the Democrats go bonkers over the 2000 election and the war on terror. Their lunacy could even hijack Hillary in 08.

So, go ahead and harp about WMD's and the 2000 election. Bush will just keep leading while your side continues the downward spiral into irrelevancy.

Joseph Botwinick

 

You are right pay is not the only reason. Certainly when I was teaching I did get tired of those parents who thought their child was better than everyone else and would never do anything wrong. Later I found out that the same thing exists in the church.

Every job has increased with the bureaucratic mess. Everyone has an added load because of those who have been proven to be unethical. Enron caused an added load recently. In 2004 a law was added requiring companies to have ethics training too.

Recently I was told that the government is thinking about add 5K/yr. to a teacher's salary at the secondary level in math and science. So they are thinking pay makes a difference. Pay may not be the only reason, but it is a big one. When you cannot pay your bills or buy a home it becomes a major influence.

Pay is the reason I quit teaching in 1988. I went from a job paying $28.00/hr (in 1984) to teach which paid me 930.00/month take home pay. My rent was $500/month for a one bedroom apartment in a poor part of town. At the time the average home was 160K. I Really wanted to teach and knew I would make less but didn't realize that I would never be able to buy a home there. Even if I had a doctorate today and was at the top of the pay scale at that high school I would not qualify for the lot a home sits on. Today a starting teacher makes slighly above 30K at the same school. While a starter home is about 500K. The top of the pay scale at that same high school is about 62K. A teacher at the junior college makes slightly more. A starting professor in Iowa makes about the same as a starting professor makes where I lived in CA. Houses cost about 1/3 in Iowa though.

The job my dad had starts at $32.572/hour (67,749.76/yr.) with no college or any former training required. A starting teacher in that area starts at about 30K/yr. So someone you teach and graduates could start at that job for more than you would making after a lifetime of teaching and going to school.

 

If you went into teaching for the pay, you went in for the wrong reason. If you left because of pay, it is probably a good thing you did. We are not gonna get rich or become millionaires. And I certainly don't want that. If the government thinks more money is gonna help, then they are really out of touch with what is going on. There is a reason that many teachers, as well as students are going to private schools today. They usually make less there...but the atmosphere is better. In the end, it isn't really about the money, although it can be a factor. It is about doing what we are meant to do: Teach. Many think of us as babysitters. Many think of us as mom and dad. Many think of us as their servants to do their every whim. Very few think of us as teachers who deserve respect.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Keep harping on that stuff. It only makes your side look more crazy and irrelevant.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I agree with most everything you wrote. I believe we must expect more from the American people rather than trying to gain an advantage by purchasing items at a cheaper price.

Sometime read the book "In Search Of Excellence"

I voted for Bush for all the right reasons I believe and would again. I owuld not have voted for Kerry at all. What I'm saying is that he is not making the differences that need to be made to overhaul society. There is a lot more to contend with than just a majority vote. It is an entire system which is broken. Also the Aemrican people need to expect more of themselves and their children.

There is a balance. Until one year ago I was in business for myself. Toward the end I stopped hiring employees and just used subcontractors. Made more money that way and had less headaches. I became a paper pusher. The price of workers comp insurance is now about 4 times the percentage of what it was when I started in the late 70s. Because of insurance there are younger men who are out there doing the work and more mistakes are made then just 15 years ago. There are also more unethical practices in the business. Money can motivate people to do a lot of things which are unethical.

Read the survey at http://www.fminet.com/global/Articles/EthicalPracticeSurvey.pdf

We have outsourced a lot of things. Certainly that has improved the economy of other countries such as China and India. We are simply gaining by being able to buy things cheaper. That is ending though with the price of steel rapidly rising. We have got to look further than just the dollar. Our kids' future is at stake. We have ceased the majority of manufacturing operations in this country. Even when I ask people from other countries about what they think, they just shake their head the same way I do. They think we are foolish for exporting our resources. Where do you find a steel mill in America to produce steel should we need to?

Parents in America are griping because education is requiring more of their children while parents from other countries wonder why our schools are so easy.

I think Bush has done some great things but I also believe the Republican party has turned its back on the American people in many ways. I belieev he greatly improved the education system in Texas when he was governor.

Companies in America are hiring many engineers from India because the US hardly has any. There is an increasing demand for teachers and few to replace those who are retiring. Many schools do not have a band because there are not teachers to replace those who are retiring. Many schools no longer have Industrial Arts because there are hardly any teachers to replace those who are retiring. Schools are in need of science and math teachers. In Industrial Arts there is a 24% demand for teachers in CA and Iowa has a 9% demand.

Made in America is extinct. It is now assembled in America.

When I see junior colleges receiving more money while universities are receiving less I wonder about what is happening. America still produces the greatest number of patents and does the most research compared to any other country in the world. Several industries in the US rely on universities to do research while the university is receiving less and less money to do that. Yet the junior colleges are receving more to educate semi-skilled workers. The greatest demand in industry is for the highly skilled and unskilled worekes. There is a decreasing demand for semi-skilled workers. That work is being done in other countries.

Industry is doing some reseach so they can get patents and make money. In some other countries that same reseacrh is being done by the government so everyone can benefit. We have effective drugs which have been produced but are not used simply because it is not cost effective.

We need to start looking at the long haul instead of the immediate gratification of buying cheap.

Ther are two thigs I have never forgotten. One is when I worked under a man who was in his 80's who had stared the business. He told me, "When price is long forgotten service is long remembered." He went on to tell me how when oyu do the best work you can charge the highest prices and you wil still have the most business. Years later I saw that work out in a business I managed. We became more profitable and sold me than anyone else. We were one of the highest in price and had the best employees. We had the best service and paid the employees the most. The owner was a growing Christian.

The second thing I remember is Proverbs 22:29, "Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will stand before kings; He will not stand before obscure men."

Skill requires patience and endurance with a proper attitude of sacrifice to reap its reward at the end.

 

Maybe for you to get a litle of the dilemma many face today in areas of the country that are much costlier to live I would propose that you give us a solution to the following. Many areas are even worse.

What would you suggest about how you would make it and have children with a starting pay of 30K and and a top pay after 30 years of 62K and the average house is 500K. The average rent is about 1,000 for a small one bedroom apartment.

I did not go into teaching for the pay. I knew it paid less. It is a good thing I did leave looking back. It allowed me to raise my family and buy a home. Now I am in a great financial situation to teach. I need very little to live on. I could have taught at the local prison and made more than double what I was making. at the time the cheapest house i could find was about 100K and the realtor told me there was nothing on the market I would qualify for. Not even a shack or mobile home.

Had I stayed in teaching I would have not been able to buy a home nor raise any children because I would not have been able to afford the rent on a home and most apartment complexes would not rent to couples with children. If they did it was in such a pooor area that it was unsafe. Where I did live I had my vehicle broken into twice in one year until I bought a burglar alarm.

The apartment complex I was living in did not allow children and it was in a poor area of town. My rent was more than 1/2 of my take home pay. Would you still teach if your mortgage or rent were more than 1/2 of your take home pay and you could not raise any children?

My garbage man was making more than I was. My students who left the high school would get jobs out of high school who made more than I did. Is that what you think should be thought of teachers? We are in sad shape in America if that is al lwe thinkl of our poublic servants. America should want the best teachers and expect a lot from them and its children.

What you are saying in essence is that nobody should be at any job for pay alone. But faced with a choice a person must pay the bills.

So yes money did force me to quit. My financial situation is much better now so I am back in it again.

[ December 26, 2005, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: gb93433 ]

 

StraightAndNarrow: //I've also had people say to my face that
I can't be a Democrat and a Christian. Could someone
quote chapter and verse on that one?//

Strange, isn't one of the big parties in Germany the
Christian Democrats?

 

You make your position look even more stupid by calling the man who actually fought in Viet Nam a traitorous coward. </font>[/QUOTE]The New symbol of the Democrat Party:



[ December 26, 2005, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Joseph_Botwinick ]

 

Greatest enemy of the Christian faith:

Each Other

Jamie

 

I know it is politically correct to rip on the Church and the imperfect Christians in her. But we simply are not the greatest enemy to the Christian faith.