Greek Texts

Unfortunately, since some choose to ignore the 'skull and crossbones' on the bottle, refuse to read the 'warning label', and persist in drinking the contents, anyway - :tear: :tear:

Why not go ahead with thread euthanasia?? Why wait for the inevitable??

Ed

 

Before the thread gets closed as it, no doubt, will shortly be closed , since "a word to the wise" never seems to suffice, here. I guess "the wise don't need it"; "the otherwise won't heed it!"

May I repeat, in essence, what another poster once said about the various manuscripts, of whatever flavor. And this is just as applicable, if not moreso, to the Greek texts as any other Biblical text.

"Be careful when making accusations about a text. That text which you are so freely dissing, was once somebody's personal Bible."

Good point! And may I add, in those days, that believer was considered privileged, just to, personally, have a small portion of the Scriptures, not even a complete whole copy. There weren't any who could say, as I can, that my wife and I have about a dozen different versions of the Bible, or parts of the Bible, in four cases- i.e. NTs, personally, plus easy access to another dozen or more 'on-line.'

Let all of us be careful in how we handle the Word of God. I think Scripture says something about that, as well.

Ed

 

Lately, when I state this sentiment, I like to add: if God saw fit to allow them to have a precious, imperfect Bible, then I should be more than satisfied with mine.

 

Yes, I agree, that here "the earliest and best" MSS have the latest and the worst reading. But let's not forget that a number of Byzantine MSS also have this interpolation in Mt 27:49, apparently from Jn 19:34.

 

O Please.

O know! not the terrible KJV'ers again:laugh: :laughse

EHUD.

 

It does appear, from Tertullian's writings against Marcion, that the Lord's Prayer in Luke in some Alexandrian MSS echoes that of what Marcion's text must have read.

First, only three Greek MSS before the 11th century (p75 Aleph B) have simply "Father" (along with Marcion & Origen) instead of, for example, "Our Father who is in heaven."

Second, most Greek MSS, however, including the regular Alexandrians, do not have Marcion's addition after "Hallowed be your name," i.e., "May your Holy Spirit come upon us and purify us."

Third, again only three Greek MSS before the 12th century (p75 B L) have simply "May your kingdom come" (along with Marcion & Origen) instead of, for example, "May your kingdom come; May your will be done also on earth as it is in heaven."

Fourth, only four Greek MSS before the 11th century (p75 Aleph B L) have simply "And do not lead us into temptation" (along with Marcion & Origen) instead of, for example, "And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

Marcion's mutilated canon gained momentum from the second half of the 2nd century on. The question is (a) whether the few Alexandrian MSS that agree with what Tertullian says Marcion propagated do in fact embody evidence of Marcion's devastating influence on the text of the NT, or (b) whether those few Alexandrian MSS actually preserve the true wording of Luke's account of the Lord's Prayer, which all the rest of the Greek MS tradition edited (i.e., corrupted) to a form more orthodox and more in harmony with Matthew's account. Current scholarship leans toward the latter explanation (b). I personally think the former explanation (a) is too easily dismissed, and may actually have higher probabilities in its favor.

 

Incidentally, the Moderator who has closed the threads is one of those "terrible KJV'ers". He is not one of those KJVO'ers (Do you see the difference??), but what does that have to do with anything, given the posting rules for the BB, which may I suggest you read sometime, and sooner than later, BTW. It'll save a great deal of consternation.

Others have posted that this is a private board, owned by one individual. He has the right to institute whatever posting rules he sees fit, and that individual is NOT C4K.

C4K, just like the rest of us, has agreed to abide by the posting rules. (He does happen to have a responsibility, given his position, to see that they are observed, by others, whereas I, for example, do not have any such responsibility, but merely offer this as friendly advice.) That agreement just means more to some of us, than apparently it does to some others.

And BTW, there is no rule or prohibition of anyone being KJVO or even saying so, as I read it. There is a prohibition of "turning every thread into a 'KJVO' thread."

Just for information.

Ed

 

I agree with these thoughts to a point, Ed. But by denying people the chance to discuss something they want to discuss, it can also be said that the rules discourage participation while encouraging participants to go elsewhere. There is another board I'll not name which is largely unmoderated, and where KJVO discussion is very common. I find myeslf spending less time at BB and more time at the other board many days. If we were permitted to discuss the things we want to discuss here at BB I would not find myself gravitating toward that other board nearly as frequently. But if the board owner wants to discourage participation here, that's up to him. As you pointed out, it's his board and his decision.

 

I realise that we are way off topic of "Greek texts" but see a need to give some input here. Several months ago there was serious discussion about closing this entire part of the board. In order to salvage we cracked down on personal attacks and attacking of versions. We also basically stopped any discussion of the KJVO issue because of the rancour and ungodly attitudes so often seen on both sides of the debate.

We all wish that we could discuss this issue as Christian gentlemen showing love and respect to those who differ, but it just never happens. Instead what results is "biting and devouring" one another.

Personally I don't understand why we find it impossible to discuss the issue respectfully, but we don't seem to able to do so.