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Hades, Heaven and Hell.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Jan 13, 2022.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    There is a spectrum of beliefs on this subject.
    The view I hold I will try to explain.
    Hades/Sheol/the nether world.
    It has two compartments.
    * An upper place where believers went.
    Also known as Paradise.
    * And a lower place where the lost were held to Judgement.
    Deuteronomy 32:22. Psalms 86:13.
    Luke 16:19-31.
    Luke 23:47.
    Jesus after His resurrection, ascended to Heaven, He moved Paradise to Heaven.
    Ephesians 4:6.
    2 Corinthians 5:8. Believers now go to Heaven when they die.
    When Jesus appears the second time He will bring believers from Heaven to be resurrected.
    1 Thessalonians 4:14.
     
    #1 37818, Jan 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
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  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Gets an "Amen" from me.

    And death and hades will be cast into the lake of fire.

    While those who are born again are with the lord forever.

    Wow. I read the end of the book. Sorry.
     
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  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Sir I started this thread because I offended a brother on this board in another thread related to this very topic.
    My post was wrongly worded.

     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No Amen for the fictional move of Paradise from Abraham's bosom to the Third Heaven.
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Luke 23:43, ". . . To day shalt thou be with Me in Paradise. . . ."
    Acts of the Apostles 2:31, ". . . of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in Hades . . . ."

    2 Corinthians 12, ". . . the third heaven. . . . Paradise . . . ."

    Ephesians 4:8, ". . . When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, . . ."

    2 Corinthains 5:8, ". . . to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. . . ."
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Clearly the third heaven (the abode of God) is Paradise.
    Clearly the OT saints waiting in Abraham's bosom were "led captivity captive" to the third heaven, Paradise.

    No verse or passage says or suggests Abraham's bosom was Paradise.
     
  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    It is now, but it was not prior to the ascension of the Lord.

    Remember, after the resurrection many saw the long dead saints walking the streets.
    17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

    If Paradise was already in the third heaven, then Christ would have already seen the Father an have ascended. But neither took place yet. Therefore, Paradise was removed and taken to heaven.

    Paradise was moved with the OT saints upon the ascension of the Lord.

    This is true, just as many other principles in the Scriptures are attained by inference.

    But you already knew all this.

    So why do you post as you did?
     
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  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    For the general knowledge of the reader, the OT uses "paradise" to refer to more than the keeping of the saints.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I kid you not, before Christ's ascension, He referred to Paradise as His destination. Thus the third heaven was Paradise before the ascension. The answer to "I have not ascended to the Father" refers to the risen Christ, in His resurrected body, rather than spiritually on the day of His physical death.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. Not according to Acts of the Apostles 2:31.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    #11 Van, Jan 24, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Hades was where Paradise was prior to Christ's resurrection. 2 Corinthians 12:1-2 is a post resurrection, post ascension reference.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Prior to Christ's death, Jesus referred to Paradise as to where the thief would be taken. Are you claiming the thief was taken to Hades? Surely Christ's kingdom is the kingdom of heaven. So Jesus remembered the thief and took him to His kingdom in heaven.
     
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    They both went to Abraham Bosom, in Hades, which was emptied out and taken to Heaven when Jesus ascended back
     
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  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The issue is the claimed relocation of Paradise from Abraham's bosom to the third Heaven. The claim is a fiction precluded by scripture.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. I am claiming Paradise was a place in Hades prior to Christ's resurrection and ascension.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Believe what you feel you must. I am of the persuasion Paradise was a place in Hades prior to Christ's resurrection and ascension. , Ephesians 4:8, ,". . . He ascended up on high, He led captivity captive, . . .". 2 Corinthians 12 is a post ascension account.
     
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus took and empied it out when he ascended back to heaven with all of them being held in there awaiting His coming!
     
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:9

    18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
    19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
    20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water: 1 Pet 3

    6 And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude
     
    #19 kyredneck, Jan 25, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
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  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No verse or passage says or suggests Abraham's bosom was called Paradise. In the NT, Paradise and the third Heaven are used interchangeable, thus when Jesus says "today you will be with Me in Paradise" the idea is the thief was taken into His kingdom spiritually. And His kingdom was not in Hades...
     
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