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Halting between Two Opinions is NOT of GOD.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Alan Gross, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The WORST, MOST DEMONS INSPIRED HERMENEUTIC, for SEEING The Book of Revelation, is to attempt to find WHAT GOD SAYS, by using a, "let's take the verse literally unless we have to think it should be taken symbolically."

    THAT is EVIL, Anti-Christ, and OPPOSITE of WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.

    "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" Revelation 1:1.

    THAT ATTEMPT, of "let's take the verse literally unless we have to think it should be taken symbolically" IS CARNAL & INCONSISTENT in attempted practice.

    from:
    9.0.18a:> NT: REVELATION 21:9; SATAN SOLD: “The Pre-Mil/ Rapture” Trap to The Candlestick’s Angles in Jesus’ Right Hand and SOME of HIS BRIDE BOUGHT IT.

    The “Connotation” of a Reality, stated IN FIGURATIVE LANGUAGE

    is OFTEN MORE EXPRESSIVE of THE TRUTH and FACTS of REALITY

    then when a Fact is simply “Denoted”.



    BOTH ARE LITERAL, LITERARY, LITERATURE.


    The confusion is created when, “Literal” Interpretation

    is CONFUSED with “LETTER-ISM”, or a “Letter-for-Letter”,

    PHOTOGRAPHIC, Carbon Copy, taken Only at “Face Value”.



    The result of this confusion created, BY ASSUMING

    “Literal” Interpretation TO MEAN: “LETTER-ISM”,

    is in an Inconsistent Hermeneutic.



    For example, pressured by the obvious, the falsely presumed to be:

    prophetic “literalist”, WHO IS ACTUALLY MISHANDLING

    THE LITERATURE of THEIR NATIVE TONGUE,

    BY INJECTING “LETTER-ISM”,


    or a “Letter-for-Letter”, PHOTOGRAPHIC,

    Carbon Copy, taken Only at “Face Value”,

    AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR BASIC STRAIGHTFORWARD

    READING the INTERPRETATION of LITERATURE,


    will readily concede that the sword coming from Christ’s mouth

    is a symbol for the word of God (1:16);

    or

    that the Spirit symbolizes the exalted Christ as a Lamb

    with seven horns and seven eyes in order to remind us that our Sacrifice for sin

    is now the Omnipotent and Omniscient High King and High Priest of Heaven (5:6).



    When, however, the PRESUMED “literalist” INJECTS “LETTER-ISM”

    or a “Letter-for-Letter”, PHOTOGRAPHIC,

    Carbon Copy, taken Only at “Face Value”,

    INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”

    and comes to the 144,000 of all the tribes

    of the children of Israel (7:4);


    or

    to the two witnesses who prophesy

    and (briefly) perish on the streets

    of the Great City (11:8);


    or

    to Christ’s admonition to the saints

    against taking the mark of the Beast (13:16-18);


    or

    to the gathering of the kings of the whole world

    at the Mountain of Megiddo (16:14);


    . . .

    Then:

    the PRESUMED “literalist” that has INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

    INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

    suddenly abandons the symbolic hermeneutic,

    AFTER THEY HAD conceded, for example,

    that the sword coming from Christ’s mouth

    is a symbol for the word of God (1:16), etc., etc.

    while using the symbolic hermeneutic,

    THEY SWITCH OFF FROM the symbolic hermeneutic

    IN MID-STREAM


    TO:

    a Presumed “literal” hermeneutic,

    in which they have INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

    or a “Letter-for-Letter”, PHOTOGRAPHIC,

    Carbon Copy, taken Only at “Face Value”,

    INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

    and they look at “the 144,000 of all the tribes

    of the children of Israel (7:4)” and say,

    LET’S COUNT ‘EM”,

    rather than maintaining the symbolic hermeneutic,

    at which time they may come to understand

    that the 12 Apostles

    represent The New Testament SAINTS

    Faithful to God in Service and Worship


    and

    The 12 Tribes of Israel

    represent The Old Testament SAINTS

    Faithful to God in Service and Worship.




    12 x 12 = 144.



    Then,

    MULTIPLY 144 TIMES The Number for The COMPLETENESS

    of ALMIGHTY GOD ( 10 ) in MAGNITUDE, or “1,000”


    or

    144 X 1,000 & we get: 144,000.


    That’s what “we get”.



    Do you get it ?



    BY ENGAGING IN THIS PROCESS of RANDOMLY SWITCHING OFF FROM

    the symbolic hermeneutic IN MID-STREAM


    TO:

    a Presumed “literal” hermeneutic,

    in which they have INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

    INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

    THE “LITERALIST / LETTER-ISM-ISTS” or trying to force a “Letter-for-Letter”,

    PHOTOGRAPHIC, Carbon Copy, “Interpretation”,

    taken at “Face Value” ONLY,

    ARE

    thereby abandoning:

    a Consistent Method of Interpretation

    for an Inconsistent Method of Interpretation.




    More than once I have heard literalists

    that has INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

    INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

    complain that a symbolic, typological hermeneutic

    will leave the prophetic interpreter “at sea,”

    bobbing up and down on the swells of mere subjectivity.




    But perhaps it is really the literalist that has INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

    INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”, (Reading Literature......)

    who is “at sea”, or bobbing back and forth at his own good pleasure,

    RANDOMLY SWITCHING OFF FROM

    the symbolic hermeneutic IN MID-STREAM


    TO attempt to follow:

    a Presumed “literal” hermeneutic,

    in which they have INJECTED “LETTER-ISM”,

    INTO THEIR UNDERSTANDING of “READING”,

    WHICH IS, AT BEST,

    “HALTING”,

    between two diametrically opposed approaches


    in their "interpretation" of apocalyptic literature in general,

    and

    The Book of Revelation in particular,

    AND RESULTS in FOOLISH GARBAGE & not WHAT GOD REVEALED.
     
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  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to share something with the Board, reagarding, "The Interpretation of Prophecy.

    The 'Clincher' is that there is often a substantiating, 'Clinger', that does what?

    The confirmation of the 'Clincher', will varify rather clearly, to The Spiritual Mind, that the intial hermeneutical methologiy which led to certain deductions and conclusions is correct.

    How about a "144,000", as God's FAITH, CORPORATE WHORSHIPING saints
    .... AND "1,000", as a figuative representation of, 'magnitude', 'myraid', 'innumerable', "countless", etc.

    Here it is: Revelation 7:4 equates the 144,000 eschatological 12 Apostles and 12 Isrealites,
    with "a great multitude whom noone could count." 7:9.

    In other words, the '12 x 12 = 144' would be multplied, by 1,000.

    144,000.

    That is the Clincher.

    So, as Dean Davis says in his book, pg. 473, we ARE INVITED to ses:

    ...The "One Thousand Years", of Revelation 20...

    ,....AS A SYMBOL of TEMPERAL MAGNITUDE.

    The "one thousand years" is a seemingly endless period of time, isn't it?

    Since Jesus was here, there have been many years and many changes.

    Seems like forever; and it has been over Two Thousand Years, since He was here.

    Thousands of years.

    Anyway, when we see 'a thousand', as God's EXPRESSION of 'MAGNITUDE', as it is in so many other Scriptures, then The Inter-Advental Period begins to be pegged.

    Each of the seven Visions is one Period of Time, in The Inter-Advental Period, and that is what "a thousand years" is referring to.

    For "a thousand years", from the Time of Jesus' Acsention, until Jesus Comes, Again.

    Long Time.

    However, that "Seemingly Endless Period of Time", as The Church Age, we are presently experiencing, in real time, ...DOES HAVE AN END.

    "A thousand years" is not on a Micky Mouse Stop Watch, it is NOW.
     
  3. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    No one in the world has the hermeneutics that you describe. Period.
     
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  4. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    LOL. I don't think I've ever been swayed by long filibustering posts.

    But, I'm amazed at the lengths people go to not take Scripture literally. They miss the blessing of 1:3.
     
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  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    One does.
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You don't know what 'literally' means.

    Literature is 'literal' that is read literately.

    Figurative language is literal literature to the literate.

    This is literature from God:

    "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" Revelation 1:1.

    You also don't know how evil it is to ignore God's Revelation, by using a willy-nilly inconsistant, illadvised, error-producing false hermeneutic. .

    [ This is the ] revelation
    Ἀποκάλυψις (Apokalypsis)
    Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
    Strong's Greek 602: An unveiling, uncovering, revealing, revelation. From apokalupto; disclosure.

    Revelation 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave ...

    ... He sent it and signified it through His angel to His slave John, .... ...
    //biblehub.com/revelation/1-1.htm - 19k


    Acts 11:28 One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the ...

    ... And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there
    should be great famine throughout all the world: which came to pass in the ...
    //biblehub.com/acts/11-28.htm - 19k


    1 Corinthians 1:11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe's ...

    ... For it hath been signified unto me concerning you, my brethren, by them that are
    of the household of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. ...
    //biblehub.com/1_corinthians/1-11.htm - 19k


    2 Peter 1:14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our ...

    ... knowing that the putting off of my tabernacle cometh swiftly,
    even as our Lord Jesus Christ signified unto me. ...
    //biblehub.com/2_peter/1-14.htm - 18k


    Acts 23:22 The commander dismissed the young man with this warning ...

    ... So the chief captain let the young man go, charging him, Tell
    no man that thou hast signified these things to me. ...
    //biblehub.com/acts/23-22.htm - 18k


    Esther 1:12 But when the attendants delivered the king's command ...

    ... But she refused, and would not come at the king's commandment, which he had
    signified to her by the eunuchs. Whereupon the king, being ...
    //biblehub.com/esther/1-12.htm - 18k

    I'll take both your replies to mean that you have no Earthly idea what Prophetic Passages Teach, by God.

    Or, yeah maybe you have ever Earthly idea and no Spiritual idea.

    STRONGS NT 4591: σημαίνω

    σημαίνω; imperfect ἐσήμαινον (Acts 11:28 L WH text);

    1 aorist ἐσημανα, for ἐσήμηνα which is the more common form in the earlier and more elegant Greek writings (see Matthiae, § 185; Kühner, § 343, under the word; (Veitch, under the word); Lob. ad Phryn., p. 24f;

    Winers Grammar, § 15, under the word;

    Buttmann, 41 (35));

    (from σῆμα a sign);

    from (Homer), Aeschylus, Herodotus down;

    to give a sign, to signify, indicate: τί, Acts 25:27;

    followed by indirect discourse, John 12:33; John 18:32; John 21:19;

    equivalent to to make known: absolutely Revelation 1:1;

    followed by the accusative with an infinitive Acts 11:28.

     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    1,000 = 10x10x10.

    That is '1,000' is the number of completeness.

    10 raised to the mathematical power of three, the number of The Triune God.

    So, in addition to magnitude, '1,000 years', symbolizes the designated space of time withinwhichGod Will Bring all of His Chosen ones into the Fold, after which Jesus Will Return.

    Bible: Ephesians 1:10; "That in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him;

    22 "And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,"

    Colossians 2:10 "And ye are complete in Him, Who is the Head of all principality and power;"
     
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I bet you are an enthusiast of 1:3, by which you read the Book of Revelation straight through, as if reading a narrative, from start to finish?

    The problem with that is that The World Comes to an End in Revelation 1:7.

    ...

    "The final judgment of both believers and unbelievers.

    "If, as Scripture seems to say, these three occur at the same time, there cannot be an intervening millennial kingdom.

    (and there is not)


    "Consider these verses:

    “And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time.

    But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

    And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
    (Dan. 12.1–2)

    “Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.” (John 5.28–29) “

    …having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.” (Acts 24.15)

    “For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.” (Matt. 16.27)




    More Than Conquerors
    by
    William Hendriksen
    4.35 · Rating details · 327 ratings · 51 reviews

    "This edition is a happy combination of real scholarship and simplicity of expression that makes this commentary especially helpful to laypersons.

    "Bible scholars will appreciate it thoroughness and the distinctive approach.

    "Dr. Hendriksen adopted very definite and sane principles of interpretation and clearly and consistently applied them throughout.

    "The result is a straightforward and understandable exposition of the Book of Revelation."

    ...

    The WORST, MOST DEMONS INSPIRED HERMENEUTIC, for SEEING The Book of Revelation, is to attempt to find WHAT GOD SAYS, by using a, "let's take the verse literally unless we have to think it should be taken symbolically."

    THAT is EVIL, Anti-Christ, and OPPOSITE of WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.

    NEITHER DO WE 'READ REVELATION STRAIGHT THROUGH, as if it is ONE NARRATIVE.

    REVELATION has SEVEN VISIONS, which are SEVEN NARRATIVES,
    EXACTLY LIKE THE FOUR GOSPELS ARE FOUR NARRATIVES.

    The SEVEN VISIONS are seven parallel sections,
    covering events from John's day to the parousia.



    Notice how EACH VISION DESCRIBES JESUS' SECOND COMING, in FINAL JUDGMENT.*

    SECTION ONE. Christ in the Midst of the Lamps (Rev. 1:1-3:22):
    THE AGE OF THE CHURCH.

    The lampstands represent the 7 churches; these are typical of all churches throughout this church age. As in all of these sections, the narrative brings us to Christ's return (3:20-22) & Revelation 1:7.*

    SECTION TWO. The Vision of Heaven and the Seals (Rev.4:1-7:17):
    THE CHURCH WILL BE TRIUMPHANT.

    This is a picture of the entire Church triumphant and includes the first mention of the 144,000.
    Once again, the section closes in chapter seven with the return of Christ*, but since the theme here is the Church triumphant, the focus is almost entirely on the saved.

    SECTION THREE. The Seven Trumpets (Rev. 8:1-11:19):
    THE WORLD WILL BE PUNISHED FOR ITS REJECTION OF GOD.

    This section describes the effects of the Seven Trumpets on both those who reject God and upon the saved. Dark and fearful things affect the world in chapters eight and nine, whilst chapters ten and eleven focus on the Church. Once again (as in all of the other sections), the narrative brings us to Christ's return at the seventh trumpet (11:15).* The message is clear: terrible things will come upon a God-rejecting world but God's own people will rejoice!

    SECTION FOUR. The Persecuting Dragon (Rev. 12:1-14:20):
    THE CHURCH MUST EXPECT PERSECUTION.

    The woman and the Man-child are persecuted by the dragon and his helpers. The section starts with a clear reference to the birth of our Saviour (12:5), the dragon threatens to devour the Man-child (Christ), but He is caught up to heaven, so the dragon now persecutes the 'woman' (the Church) through the agencies of the 'beast' and the 'harlot.' This is why Christians must expect persecution. Yet again the section closes with the Second Coming and with impending judgment (14:14-20).*

    SECTION FIVE. The Seven Bowls (Rev. 15:1-16:21): FINAL JUDGMENT.
    These seven sections progressively reveal a little more and now the entire focus is on the final judgment of this world, and Armageddon is mentioned (16:16). Indications are strong (as we will learn later in this article) that the seven bowls and seven trumpets refer to exactly the same events but from somewhat differing perspectives; Christ returns at the seventh bowl and seventh trumpet.*

    SECTION SIX. The Fall of Babylon (Rev. 17:1-19:21): BABYLON'S CONFUSION FINALLY REMOVED FROM THE WORLD.
    The current Babylonian system is why people are currently blinded to spiritual truth and worship money, commerce and various satanic ideologies: Darwinism, Marxism, Pantheism (modern 'environmentalism' is clearly pantheistic), and all the false religions. Babylon said (and currently still says) that people can freely be wealthy and prosperous at the expense of others and that these people can have a religion of their choice to appease their souls; Babylon masked the truth about God and gave people a religion of their minds; Babylon truly offered a self-earned justification, bedecked in deceptive luxury, moreover, it may even be observed in modern evangelicalism. This section shows when Babylon will finally be destroyed for her evil works of deception. We again find the return of Christ occurring (19:11), these regular returns of Christ confirm that these are parallel sections, not consecutive occurrences!*

    SECTION SEVEN. The Great Consummation (Rev. 20:1-22:21): GOD'S KINGDOM SPREADS FROM HEAVEN TO THE EARTH AND TO THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!
    The final section which reveals such great spiritual truth begins by going back to the start of the Church age to show how Satan has been restricted during this age.

    We even see the saints in heaven awaiting the resurrection (20:4-5), then we learn more about a final great military battle and the final destruction of the beast, false prophet and Satan himself (20:7-11), next we are presented with an amazing glimpse of the Great White Throne of Judgment when everybody who has ever lived must stand before God! (20:11-15).

    Yet it does not even finish there: God has even allowed us a symbolic glimpse into the New Jerusalem and the New Heavens and New Earth (chapters 21-22).*
     
    #8 Alan Gross, Sep 18, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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