Hank Hanegraaff

That's a great statement, but ultimately, it lacks any proof. </font>[/QUOTE]Scott,

So tell me, who today is the oracle of God that we might hear him? When did God ever make a man a prophet and not establish him as a prophet in the minds of His people?

You claimed that you have the gift of wisdom. Does that mean we should write your sermons down as inspired like Scripture? If not, why not?

Mark Osgatharp

 

The Bible is silent on a lot of issues. The BIble says that Christ is going to come again, but is silent on when that will be.

Actually this is one of the things that is clear. Jesus gave a very clear time frame.

 

I would posit that Billy Graham has been given a special gift. There were many prophets who were not established in the minds of the people - such as those who did not turn and follow Ahab, I think it was, when Elijah complained to God.

No, I have not been inspired to write such Scripture. However, I have been given a gift that I received upon accepting Christ as my Lord and Saviour. He has given me the ability to lead others, give them godly counsel, and "see" things between the lines that others often can not see. It also deals a lot with making the right decision and understanding consequences of choices.

BTW, here are the 12 gifts (from R. Dolphin):

1. Apostle (apostolos). The Greek word means "one sent forth" (on an official errand), i.e., an ambassador. In addition to the twelve original disciples who became apostles, Paul was added to the list of those commissioned by God to lay the foundations of the Christian church and impart a full body of truth which would guide Christian faith and conduct. There were also other apostles, for example, Barnabas, Acts 14:4,14; Andronicus and Junia, Romans 16:7, 2 Corinthians 8:23; Philippians 2:25. The need for apostles diminished as the church became established. If there are any apostles today they might be found among pioneer missionaries who establish churches in foreign lands where the gospel has not yet been proclaimed. Christians today are under apostolic authority, however there is no Biblical reason to believe in the so-called apostolic succession of authority in the church. Ray Stedman likens the apostles in the Body of Christ to the skeleton and musculature of the human body.

2. Prophet, prophecy. (prophetes), lit: "to speak forth," to proclaim the mind and counsel of God, i.e., the gift of preaching. Differs from pastor-teacher in scope. Ray Stedman compares the role of the NT prophet to the nervous system of the body. NT prophets do not make predictions about the future as the OT prophets did, but gather their message from the Scriptures. Nor is God giving the church new revelation through such individuals today. The gift of prophecy is likewise not for giving secret messages from God to individuals in the church. Prophets vigorously stimulate and challenge the Body of Christ, pastor-teachers patiently feed the sheep and care for their needs. Prophets are to edify, exhort and console, (see 1 Cor. 14:3).

3. Evangelist, evangelism. (evangelistes) from eu = well, plus angelos = messenger. The gift of bringing the good news of God to unbelievers individually and in groups. The content of the message is outlined in I Cor. 15. Ray Stedman compares this gift to the digestive apparatus of the human body which has the ability to take material which is not a part of the body and transform it into parts of the body. Evangelists are also to teach other believers how to lead people to the Lord Jesus. Timothy evidently did not have this gift but Paul nevertheless urged him to "do the work of an evangelist".

4. Pastor-teacher (poimenes kai didaskalos), shepherd and teacher. Ray Stedman describes this gift as analogous to the circulatory system of the human body which "cleanses and feeds" the members of the body. Ray Stedman once said he believed this was a this is a common gift, given to perhaps a third of Christians.

5. Administration. (kubernesis = government). To pilot, guide, or steer as one steers a ship. To preside over the assembly and guide the proceedings. In order to preserve order in Christian meetings the person in charge should know how to direct the course of events towards a spiritual goal as led by the Spirit.

6. Leadership, (proistemi) "to stand before" that is attend to with care and diligence, as the head of a family does. Perhaps this also includes setting the pace, imparting direction and goals in a ministry since sheep are lazy and helpless and prone to wander off course. Most people like to follow a good leader. God's leaders are not only visionary they lead by serving.

7. Faith. (pistis), Faith-vision: the ability to believe God for new direction and power---visionary faith that sets in motion events others can join in and follow. All Christians have some faith because "without faith it is impossible to please God." Also anyone's faith grows as it is exercised. However there is also a gift of "faith-vision" which pioneers new ministries, encourages others and helps them to grow in faith. "Without a vision the people perish" (Proverbs 29:18).

8. Knowledge. (logos gnoseos), lit: "word of knowledge," systematic understanding of truth in broad, sweeping terms so that others may be trained and instructed. Not supernatural utterances from God. All Christians have some knowledge, but there is also a gift of knowledge given to some so they may teach and edify the Body. The ability to sum up lots of information or pieces of knowledge so as to give a clear concise overview.

9. Wisdom (logos sophias), lit: "word of wisdom." The ability to make wise choices and decisions at critical forks in the road. Very valuable to an individual or a group when it needs to choose but has no specifically clear information on the best choice. All Christians can grow in wisdom as they make a series of wise choices over a life-time, however there is also a gift of wisdom given to some in the Body of Christ.

10. Exhortation, encouragement. (paraklesis), to call alongside, comfort, strengthen, to counsel, exhort, bring aid, admonish. The same Greek word describes the Holy Spirit's role in our lives.

11. Discernment (of spirits) (diakriseis pneumaton), is a gift to judge or evaluate the spirits so as to distinguish whether something is from God or from an evil source. Similar to the natural talent of intuition but of course more reliable and consistent.

12. Ministering (diakonia), to serve (hence our word deacons). A wide variety of activities one performs with the help of God to comfort, encourage, support and build up God's people. Also, (huperetes), an under-rower or servant as distinguished from an ordinary seaman on a Roman galley.

13. Service (helps) (antilempsis), "to lay hold of (and support)", especially the weak and needy. To minister to others and meet their needs.

14. Giving, (metadidomi), is the gift of sharing and imparting, not only money but other resources. All Christians should learn to give generously since "God loves a 'hilarious' giver", however certain individuals are given the gift of giving so they can act as stewards over material resources in the Body of Christ.

15. Tongues (that is, "kinds of languages") (gene glossan). The ability to speak in other languages not previously learned, but known languages to men. The gift is for the purpose of praising God. It must be directed to God, not to be used to pass a message from one member to another or from one member to the congregation. Not a means of communication from the Lord to the flock. A sign to Israel especially to mark the beginning of a new dispensation. A sign to unbelievers.

16. Interpretation of Tongues. The ability to translate unknown languages so as to edify and instruct others regarding what has been said.

17. Miracles. (energemata dunameon) The ability to raise men from the dead, call fire down from heaven and otherwise present signs that authenticate the power of God in certain situations.

18. Healing(s). (charismata iamaton) (plural). Ability to heal at the physical, emotional and spiritual levels. The word is plural in Greek, probably suggesting that the ability to heal refers to all three levels of man. Today, God sometimes heals physically, but more often emotionally and spiritually. A valuable gift for a counselor.

19. Mercy (eleos) An ability to touch inwardly with compassion. To be exercised with "cheerfulness".

20. Hospitality. (philoxenia), lit: "love of strangers." May not be a spiritual gift but definitely a Christian virtue. Those who believe this is a separate gift also hold that all believers are to practice hospitality.

 

And every generation since then was sure that they knew when that time frame was, and each of them was mistaken.

 

And every generation since then was sure that they knew when that time frame was, and each of them was mistaken.

Go back and study the time frames. He came when He said He would. It is not the timing that was wrong, but our understanding of the "nature" of His coming.

 

Ah, so you're a preterist?

 

That is the view I have come to.

 

That is the view I have come to. </font>[/QUOTE]I have never heard of a Baptist being a preterist, as that view falls outside orthodoxy according to orthodox teachings.

 

The reason Hannegraaff speaks out against the "prosperity preachers" is because they preach a FALSE gospel.

I understand the concern about the salary and benefits Hannegraaff receives from his ministry. I too am put off a little because of it, but the board of directors are people who make that decision. I do not think that his exorbitant salary is the same thing as preaching a false gospel. </font>[/QUOTE]I disagree ( shich is allowed) that Prosperity Preachers are a false Gospel ( I do however have some problems with a few that call themselves Prosperity preachers ex. Robert Tilton)
But If I did agree with you about prosperity Preachers being a false teaching I would stitll have a problem with Hank hannegraff( the accuser of the brethren) being the one to speak out against them. If a person like Mother Teresea spoke out I might listen. but HH has no credibility to attack anyone.

 

When someone says "prosperity teachers", typically, they're talking about the Word of Faith cult, which is another gospel because it denies, among other things, Christ's atonement on the cross and His sinlessness.

OK. First of all, will you please quit calling him the "accuser of the bretheren"? The Bible is clear that that title belings to Satan and for you to misapply it to Hannegraff makes you look silly.

Second, all of us are charged with examing the teachings that are put before us and speaking out when something doesn't line up with scripture. I don't know what "creibility" you think he needs but, depending on what your criteria is, you can say that anyone doesn't have credibility to suit your on agenda.

You don't have to have credibility to follow God's word, that's how you build credibility.

Third, may I ask who Hannegraff has "attacked"?

 

Hank Hanegraaff = "the accuser of the brethren"?? You must have some pretty freaky brethren

Anyway, in answer to original question...I haven't heard his show, but surf through CRI's equip.org site now and then. Always find it to be spot on. (DISCLAIMER: There are a lot of articles at equip.org, I have not read them all yet)

Pete

 

Walter Martin was a giant! It is a pity what happened to his organization when he died of a heart attack.

What irks me is that a lot of Walter Martin materials seem to be no longer available. Someone should put his lectures and sermons on CD so that they would last longer than tapes. Also, the books of Walter Martin should be reprinted. His one book that I like so much is a "handbook of basic Christian doctrines" called "Essential Christianity." Also, I think that someone should reprint the last edition of "The Kingdom of the Cults" that was solely the work of Dr. Martin.

The current CRI leader really hijacked the organization by capitalizing on the grief of the widow in order to seize power at a time of distress. One wonders what state the records and files of the organization are in. To me, this exposes the weakness of the para-Church organizations. I prefer to use the apologetics resources of my denomination to those of CRI. After a couple of requests, CRI finally removed my name from their mailing list.

Walter Martin--what a man! How I miss him on the radio!