Harry Potter...agent of Lucifer

I don't think anyone read my first post where I address this issue.

This is the issue: does the book/story/movie endorse the practice of the occult as a good or fun thing? Or does it condemn it? Are real life occult practices given as a good thing?

Fantasy and the occult are not the same thing. Occult practices are listed in Deut 18.10-12 and some of them elsewhere, but that is the most comprehensive list.

There is fantasy magic like jumping over buildings (Superman) or falling down a hole and seeing talking cups and saucers (Alice in Wonderland); then there is the real occult magick (sorcery) and the practices of divination and spirit contact, all clearly forbidden by God.

For example, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" was a mixture of fantasy magic (Buffy) and real occultism with Willow, Buffy's best friend. Willow got interested in Wicca and began to practice it. As she did so, her self-confidence grew and she became more adept at it. She reminded me actually of many young girls I"ve known and do know who are involved in Wicca. The show presented it as a good thing. When Willow got carried away and did some bad things with her "powers," she was punished. But this was not a denouncement of Wicca, but rather that Willow had gone over to the dark side of Wicca and misused it. This is a common view in the occult. They believe that everyone, including the gods (in Wicca), have a light and dark side.

This view is actually found in Taoism and can be seen in the yin-yang symbol (I have an article on this as well). There is no absolute good or evil, just the goal of finding the balance between the two. This is also seen in Star Wars (George Lucas is a follower of Eastern religions) with the light and dark side of the force. In Episode I, they accept Anakin (who becomes Darth Vader) though they are concerned about him because "the force must be balanced."

The question of whether children should read or see these things is a parental decision. I am not telling parents what to do though when I'm asked for my opinion, I will give it. But I try to equip parents and other with the info. This is how God has turned around my whole adult life that was into the occult, New Age, and Eastern religions and used what was meant for evil for good. All the years I invested in these areas, defying God, rejecting Christ, and now God has graciously saved me, and I have the opportunity to use all that knowledge and experience for Christ.

 

My wife and I visited Jackson Square in New Orleans' French Quarter this past week----there's lots of Fortune Tellers/Palm Readers, etc. available up and down and all around the Square----and we found out that a lot of um have the latest in credit card "swipes" so you can pay um with a credit card just like at wally world!!

 

It's been a while since we've had a Harry Potter topic. Probably because we've been to busy beating the dead horse of KJVOism.


Let's see, what other dead horses are out there?

We've beaten KJVOism to death.
We've beaten Harry Potter to death.
We've beaten freemasonery to death.

Can someone bring in the dead horse that says "women wearing pants"? I don't think we're done beating that one yet.

 

Yes, I've been there, too, Blackbird. I stood off to the side for a long time while I was there and prayed for them.

I used to be one of those people (though I did not take credit cards and I was not at Jackson Square) and many of my friends did palm reading, tarot cards, astrology, etc.

Most of them are probably spiritually into New Age beliefs and some possibly into Wicca. I hope that Christians who go to Jackson Square pray for these people as they walk by them. It may be the only prayer they ever get.

 

For the longest time I had nothing to do with HP because of the controversy surrounding it. I really had no desire to see the movies, read the books, or any of it. I am an avid reader, from the moment I could read. My bedtime stories quickly moved from Bible stories, Clifford, and the Berenstein Bears to the Chronicles of Narnia, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and the like. By the time I was 12, I had read all of these works. I then progressed into works by Piers Anthony... an acclaimed fiction/fantasy novelist who is an atheist. At no time was I feeling drawn into the atheistic lifestyle, nor the occultic practices of some of the authors I read in my teenaged years.

My parents kept constant watch over what I read, asked me questions, and made sure that while these things I read were fantasy, I went to a solid Bible-preaching church, and learned the reality of the Word. I think the key here is to TEACH YOUR CHILDREN. I never was swept into an occultic lifestyle because of the things I read, for I knew that they were wrong... or rather it never occurred to me to because they were merely elements of the story, not the purpose of the stories. HP (I have since read the first 3 books) seems to have some questionable elements of the story... but as long as they are taken as fantasy and seen as not real but false, I don't see the harm.

Reading an HP book is not like going out to find a book on Divination. However, because of the controversy and possible problems, I think it's apprpriate for some parents to balk at having the book read to their children at school.

While I appreciate the research and past experiences of Marcia, I believe that the bext combat of stories and books like this is the pre-emptive education of children, not keeping them from it. I know it worked in my case. After I get married, my wife and I will decide together whether that is something we want to approach with our children.

Of course, I realize that I'm opening myself up to ridicule for being a Christian who attends and serves in a Baptist church, and yet has no real problem with HP, other than those I described. It's just my humble opinion. Let the stones be thrown.

In His Grip,
joshua

 

Just one question-----exactly WHAT is to be gained----mentally and spiritually---by reading HP?? I've lost nothing by not reading it---or going "Ga-Ga, Goo-Goo!!" over it!!

 

Joshua, thanks for your input. I just would like to make a couple of comments on what you say.

First of all, just because you were not "swept" into an occult lifestyle does not mean that HP might not get some children interested in the occult (and you are an adult, after all). Indeed, it has. I get tons of email on HP and several have asked me questions on magick and witchcraft. They are young and just see that I have articles on HP and the occult and without reading anything on my site, I think, assume I can give them info on how to get involved in these areas. They tell me they have read HP and would like to know how to do magick or cast spells. There is more evidence of this if you go to the scholastics website and see a page there on casting spells. They invite children to send in spells. Some of the spells are actual wiitchraft spells (the children put their ages down and most of them are about ages 9 to 13).

Aside from this issue of whether the books influence individuals is the issue of the books influencing the culture. They have. Due to the popularity of HP, 4 publishers decided to publish books for teens and pre-teens with 'witches or wizards' as the heroes. As I said earlier, the occult is not fantasy though in these books the 2 are often mixed together. But I do not think young children can filter out the bad stuff, even when someone points it out to them. There is no way to take that out of their minds.

There is another issue besides whether the books influence individuals or the culture -- the issue is the principle of the thing. Should Christians always evaluate things on whether or not there is a bad influence? Should we not avoid what is evil and cling to what is good? If a book endorses practices God condemns and has heroes who practice these things (which are actual, real life practices), then it seems these books should not be endorsed by Christians.

What if Harry finds out he is gay? How would Christians feel about that? I have a feeling that few Christians would be okay with it. And yet the occult is as condemned and as real as homosexuality. I think because a lot of Christians do not come into contact with the occult and have never been involved with it, it isn't real to them.

Related to HP are several books, including at least 2 for children that I have seen, that inform children about real spells, divination and other occult practices they can do on their own. These books were published on the coattails of HP and are a direct result of the HP books. They are written for children, at their level.

 

Marcia,

If Harry found out that he was gay, something I don't expect but could be wrong on, I would treat that the same way that I treat the rest of the unsavory elements of the story. Even when I was a child, and certainly now, I didn't/don't put a book down simply because the main character is a sinner... or has a flawed character. Now, it might dissuade me from reading the book to my child at night, but I wouldn't keep them from reading it... especially if all their friends and schoolmates know the books well. It gives an opening to discuss these issues with the child as wrong according to the Bible. But of course, I am in no way saying that each and every parent has the right to have their own opinion on the matter. And frankly, when I have children, my opinion may change. But as of now, I say let them read, and then give them the answers they seek.

Just my humble opinion. Thanks for taking the time to write back to me Marcia. I appreciate it.

In His Grip,
joshua

 

What is to be gained by reading the works of Stephen King? What is to be gained by reading Romeo & Juliet? What is to be gained by choosing a tall vanilla mocha over a venti iced frapuccino? I've done all of these. Sure, if I went "gaga" over all of these, it might indicate a problem, but I don't. Well, except for the tall vanilla mocha, maybe.

 

I am still working through my opinions on science fiction and fantasy, so forgive me if my post seems to ramble a bit.

As a teen, I was a HUGE Trek and Wars fan. I'm still a fan. But I see a lot of subtle messages in how the stories are presented and the fundamental beliefs behind the stories, and as I get older and study the Word more deeply, I'm finding that I'm having to do a lot of damage control in my own thinking. And most of the damage came from prolonged exposure to science fiction. One of the MAJOR ones is the value it places on free will - it really warped my ability to submit my will to God's. It's something I still struggle with.

I read the first two Harry Potter books. Their wild popularity gives me pause, as does the fact that interest in them has caused interest in other similar books to skyrocket. There is much worse out there - Philip Pullman anyone? *shudder* If you have not read the His Dark Materials series, count yourself protected. I have, and this is what Satan wants in our children's minds, even more than Harry Potter. So much of fantasy and science fiction promotes flexible ethics and the lack of absolute truth.

Having no children of my own, I can't say for certain how I will handle what they read. But I think that at the very least, we will read books together and discuss them. My parents never regulated what I read. Now granted, if I had come home with a bodice-ripper, they'd have immediately done something about it. But they saw science fiction and fantasy as harmless make-believe and never once asked to look at or read what I was reading. Sometimes I wish they had.