Has God fore-ordained everything that comes to pass?

2BHizown,

And to your posts also.....Amen! Our God is in control and that happens to be the best thing.

Even when we cannot see the purpose behind all things that happen, we know He is in ultimate control.

About your statement on free-will.....I find that free-willers somehow think there is some kind of cosmic guidline that God must follow.

If He does not follow them He will get in trouble from the United Galactic Council.

They cry foul on God if He was to intervene in the humans He has made. They think they are some sort of umpires that can sit back and decide what God can and can't do with everything He owns which happens to be everything!

God can do WHATEVER He wants with His creation and that includes humans.

They say God is in control of everything but when you take them to the nitty gritty they say people are free-from His control......how do they come up with this stuff?

Most everything that happens on earth is through humans. So to them what is God in control of? Rabbits and lighting bolts only?

I say they are sadly mistaken!

"But true wisdom and power are with God; counsel and understanding are his. What he destroys cannot be rebuilt. When he closes in on someone, there is no escape. If he holds back the rain, the earth becomes a desert. If he releases the waters, they flood the earth."

"Yes, strength and wisdom are with him; deceivers and deceived are both in his power. He leads counselors away stripped of good judgment; he drives judges to madness. He removes the royal robe of kings. With ropes around their waist, they are led away. He leads priests away stripped of status; he overthrows the mighty. He silences the trusted adviser, and he removes the insight of the elders. He pours disgrace upon princes and confiscates weapons from the strong."

"He floods the darkness with light; he brings light to the deepest gloom. He raises up nations, and he destroys them. He makes nations expand, and he abandons them. He takes away the understanding of kings, and he leaves them wandering in a wasteland without a path. They grope in the darkness without a light. He makes them stagger like drunkards."

Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD.

And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

Many of these people need to take a chill pill and stop patting themselves on the back and start seeing what BLESSINGS are and Who they come from.

KJB

 

There was a person in here that was thinking along the lines of how evil can exist with God in control.

First of all I want to make it very clear that there is no man that God has to answer to or respond to....He is not obligated unless He obligates Himself.

Let us go to a true story of an entire dramatic event taking place on the earth as others in the heavenly abodes worked.

Meet the man Job;

In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. He had seven sons and three daughters, and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.

Who do we think made Job? Satan, God, Job?

One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"

Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job ? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

God had claimed Job. God made Job. Everything about Job was because of God. His wealth and his heart were protected by God.

"Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

The hedge of protection from God was the point made. God had the power to stop people from bothering Job which means God had power over the wills of people.

The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."

Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

Did God have to lower His hedge of protection? Could Satan make God lower it? Who thinks Satan could lay a finger on Job? Did God just give over everything else to Satan?

The next thing we know is Sabeans come forth and loot and murder many of the things Job had.

Could God have stopped such evil? Of course He could. But if He allowed it, what is the difference in saying He decreed it to happen as such?

Before the speaker was done telling Job, there came another speaker with the news that fire from God burned up the sheep and servants.

The second speaker had not finished and we hear that another came and told about the Chaldeans that just got done looting and murdering.

Next thing you know he was being told a wind came out of the desert and wiped out his entire family!

Is there anyone on this entire board that thinks God was not capable of stopping all the looting, murdering, and death taking place?

He stopped it all before with His hedge of protection. Why can't He do it again? Is He just going to sit there and let it all happen?

There are many people that see such things as all the evil going on in this world and they say if God is in control it must be His fault.

So they either blame Him or say He must not be in control of anything.

Job knew much better;

At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship and said:

"Naked I came from my mother's womb,
and naked I will depart.
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken
away; may the name of the LORD be
praised."

In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.

Job knew that the Lord is involved with all things and that ALL things are the Lords!

Even though God could have stopped all of this from taking place it was His will that it would take place.

You can rest assured that God will hold Satan, Chaldeans, and Sabeans all to account for their actions of looting and murder!

Who will hold God? What will people do, take Him to court? Chain Him up? Jail Him?

Who will blame Him for removing His hedge of protection when He could have kept it up and saved all those critters and people?

The LORD gives and the LORD takes away.....praise the Name of the Lord!

And in all things I do not blame God for wrongdoing.

KJB

 

God is NOT in total control. As a matter of fact MOST of what happens on this earth IS NOT His will, and this world is clearly out of control, except that it is controled by the "god" of this age--the devil. He's the one in control. The Lord is calling out of this mess a people to Himself, and when this is done, then He will TAKE BACK THE CONTROL ADAM FORFEITED TO SATAN, when the Kindoms of this world BECOME the Kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ. You see, things are not the way they are supposed to be right now, but that WILL CHANGE. Accept these truths, for God in His "Sovereignty" allowed for this, and is in process of correcting it.

 

jarhed, HanSola2000,

Is it possible God could cause a man to do something bad?

KJB

 

Wrong Cass. You simply need to think outside of that "limited atunement" your mind operates under, and try the real world. God has DELEGATED authority of earth to man. Man forfetied his delgated authority to God's enemy, and put himself and his posterity under satanic bondage. God is REDEEMING mankind, as many as will come to Him for life. God, being God, is kindly and patiently drawing men out of this satanic mess now, so that when He TAKES CONTROL IN THE FUTURE, He will have a people to reign and rejoice with.

There is no problem with this Biblical understanding. It is simply the way thingss are. God is gloriously redeeming fallen mankind, and He will assume control over this world real soon. Until then, its satan's time, and his time is short, but his antichrist is awaiting his opportunity, and the devil will show who is in control until Christ wrests it from him.

 

You say so, the Bible does not. The Bible says God gave the earth to man. God gave man dominion. Man lost this dominion, and another got it---the devil. He is "the god of this world"-2Cor 4:4. Jesus Christ called him "the prince of this world"-John 18. So you need to accept these simple facts that right now, the devil is running the show, God is intervening in mercy before He intervenes in wrath and judgement. But the devil's authority and power is yet to give its full show and display, but when the beast assumes power, all will see the devil is the "king" right now until the King of Kings comes and takes what is rightly His, and deposes that tyrant. This is clear Genesis through Revelation, and you know it. Admit it.

 

That this world is in an age-long war against God is self evident. Satan is the god of this world, the prince of the power of the air.

That somehow God is having difficulty with this situation not true. God ever remains on His throne of the universe.(There are still some lost sheep to be gathered.) His permissive Will allows Satan to continue. Satan was defeated before the foundation of the world--Jesus has conquered Satan--the sentence will soon be carried out.

Are we ready?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

2BHizown, TCassidy, Bro.James,

Great posts! It is a comfort to know you all are there.

I wonder if jarhed and HanSola can figure the following out, I am quite certain you others already know it;

Most of us know it is wrong for a man to sleep with the wife of another man. (I am sure we will find some on this board that will argue that)

Can we wonder if the Lord is capable of raising up people and stirring them to do evil?

I already know the Lord does not have to tempt.....for we creatures are driven by our own selfish desires and lust.

When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

Now I have kinda given all the answers there to the following;

"Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.

'Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun.'"

So if the LORD is not in control....how does He do such a thing? Does such a thing happen? Does the LORD actually CAUSE a man to sleep with Davids wives? How can He make this happen if He has no control?

I say He does. And I still claim that the LORD is Mighty and Holy! And in all He does I will not accuse Him of wrongdoing.

HanSola says that things are not the way they should be. I disagree. Satan belongs to God. Satan is a creature and not a self sustaining being.

Satan was created by God with God knowing full well exactly what He was creating. There was NO suprise. If God did not wish for Satan to exist he would not exist. You can be certain that God is in control and has enough power to turn Satan into thin air.

As Jesus was walking along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. “Teacher,” his disciples asked him, “Why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his sins or those of his parents?”

“It was not because of his sins or his parents’ sins,” Jesus answered. “He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him.

If I blinded a man I would be guilty....as for God all things belong to Him to do with as He wills.

At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the prisoner who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of the livestock.

WOW! Quite a feat for a God that has no control or power on the earth.

I would venture to say that if I went and killed all Egyptian firstborns today I would be held by all kinds of earthly authorities for murder. I have this conviction that God would hold me accountable for murder also.

Some of the firstborns that God killed were probably mere infants...you know babes in swaddling clothes! They probably were only capable of sleeping, eating, crying, and soiling themselves.

And the LORD killed them all, big and small, every firstborn.

And still God has done no wrong. Why? Because all things were made by Him for Him. Angels, Satan, leaves, trees, birds, fish, rocks, planets, babies, planets, bacteria, oceans, and HUMAN SOULS.

Everything was made by Him and belongs to Him.

If you have been brought to know Christ...you need to stop patting yourself on the back and give credit where credit is due!

KJB

 

But that is not what my Bible says. He knows when the sparrow falls, he does not predestinate it. It is my WILL to write this post. God allows me to choose. When God spoke to Adam he did not question his sin as one that had no choice. God did not ORDAIN the United States to kill 1/4 of our children over the last 30 years...yet we have done so. Jesus said of Jerusalem...I WOULD, but YE would not. Phil. 2:5 says "LET this mind be in you." All of Romans 6 speaks of the war which is in us and that we must choose to serve one (old nature and sin) or the other (New nature, righteousness & OBEDIENCE). To believe that God has created sin rather than free will flies in the face of His Righteousness.

The bottom line is, I know I do whatever I want, and many times it grieves God. I fight that old man by attempting to submit to the Lord and LET this mind be in me...but, as Paul said, there is a war in my members and it is AGAINST the WILL of God and has its seed in the WILL of man (Rom.6&7). These are just simple Bible facts. </font>[/QUOTE]Jarhed is 100% on the money with this post. It answers exactly how predestination and the Lord relate to mankind. Great post.

 

2bHizown;

There is one thing I know for sure and so does anyone who is anti-Calvinist and that is Calvinist do not go by scripture alone this claim is false.Calvinist here prove that every day

In the Light Of Christ;
Mike