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Featured Has Joel Osteen's preaching saved anyone?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 22, 2021.

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  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I understand the reservations some have about teachers like Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer, but if God is sovereign over salvation, can't God use their preaching to draw His elect unto Himself anyway, despite how questionable certain particulars of their theology might be?



    Also, are there any contemporary preachers who focus on the power of positive thinking who don't have a questionable theology?
     
    #1 Humble Disciple, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Paul said he was determined to know nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified. He called of “first importance” that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead according to scriptures.

    Olsteen has publicly stated he does not feel called to preach anything about the cross of Jesus Christ.

    Given the centrality of the cross in the gospel, it’s hard to see how any one could be saved without it.

    peace to you
     
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  3. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I have no use for Joel Osteen (or his late father's preaching), nor Ms. Meyer's.

    Preaching itself does not save, but the truth of a sermon (where there is any truth) can be used of the Spirit to move people toward Christ. In the same way, a Baptist church does not save, but it can be a great help or hinderance, depending on the members, the atmosphere, and what is taught. Even a cult that is focused on religious things can be a place where God intervenes with those who are truly seeking to know him.

    Years ago, I met a man in Kenosha, Wisconsin, who came to faith while a Mormon. There was enough of the gospel remaining in the beliefs of some of the members of his stake to get him to think carefully about the identity of Jesus and the nature of the gospel. He did his own reading in the King James Bible and found it more coherent than the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. He started asking a lot of questions in at the Mormon stake, and a man pulled him aside and shared the Christian gospel with him. Apparently, the man who was in the Mormon stake had come to faith in Christ a few years before and felt the conviction to stay in the Mormon community and pray for those people. As they started asking the right questions, he would pull them aside and teaching the gospel to them, helping them leave the Mormon cult.

    So God is not limited by bad preachers, false teachers, or other elements, but I certainly wouldn't point anyone to Osteen, Meyer, the Mormons, or toxic Baptist churches. I would share the gospel and tie them into a loving Christian church where they can learn and grow in Christ.
     
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  4. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Isn't the above video about "the power of the blood"?
     
  5. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I agree.

    Are you saying the content of his preaching is equivalent in its falseness to Mormons? It's been years since I've listened to one of his sermons.
     
  6. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Are there any contemporary preachers who focus on the power of positive thinking who don't have a questionable theology?
     
  7. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I didn't bother watching the video. Is it important that I do so?
     
  8. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    No, it just seems like he focuses on at least the basics of traditional Christian theology, even if he adds a questionable emphasis to them.
     
  9. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Joel Osteen got his basic theology from his father, John Osteen. John Osteen was a health and wealth "seed faith" preacher. The health and wealth teaching is directly tied to the New Thought movement out of Boston, Massachusetts, from the teachings of Phineas P. Quimby in the early 19th century. He taught that reality was created by the mind, and positive confession creates one's reality. It became quite popular, and Christian Science, Unity, and a number of other explicitly non-Christian movements came out of it, all pushing health and wealth positive thinking. E.W. Kenyon, a Baptist minister in Massachusetts, took Quimby's teachings and fitting "Christian" terminology around it. Fortunately, for a time, Kenyon's writings were somewhat obscure, but Kenneth Hagin found them and boldly plagiarized Kenyon's writings, presenting them as revelation from God, and introduced them to the charismatic movement.

    Those teachings became extremely popular because the theology was inspired by a con man (Quimby) to separate people from their money, so many charismatic preachers and con men began teaching it get rich.

    Getting back to Joel Osteen... he absorbed his father's theology, then added the positive thinking aspect to it, creating his own blend of heresy.

    Yes, I believe Osteen is not much better than the Mormons. In fact, I think he is a little more dangerous, since he is thought to be an explicitly Christian leader and he is distributing poison. Mormons are quirkier with their additional "revelation" and three extra books of scripture that they have to 'sell' people before they can make a convert.

    I don't know of any.
     
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  10. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    He uses the terminology, but I've never heard him call anyone in Christian discipleship without characterizing it as a process of giving money to the church and "believing God" for health and wealth.

    Frankly, very few preachers on television call people into Christian discipleship. Most just reduce the gospel message to aspects of the substitutionary atonement, for better or worse.
     
  11. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Don't put much faith in these modern telly preachers... Jim Baker comes to mind, him and his Hollywood religion, what an evil wreck that was... I remember Oral Roberts too... What preacher after delivering the gospel to Indian people, can board a plane that he came in on and tell his pilot... Get me away from these savages!:eek:... I've got many more but these will suffice... Sure don't act like preachers I've heard... They are sure lacking in a lot of things humility, is sure one... Brother Glen:)
     
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  12. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Isn't that sad?
     
  13. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I wouldn't join a church that had Joel Osteen as a pastor, but if God is sovereign of salvation, can't He use Osteen's preaching to draw His elect unto Himself?
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    God used a donkey...I suppose he could use Osteen...
     
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  15. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    John Piper seems to be a positive preacher. His positivity is what originally attracted me to Calvinism.
     
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  16. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Zig Ziglar was in the so-called Conservative Resurgence camp of the SBC, even got elected Convention vice-president.
     
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  17. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    It is well that God can speak through an ass, else he would have little use for many preachers.
     
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  18. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    IMO, every teacher must stand or fall on his own merits. God is sovereign and does as he pleases and saves whom he will. Yet that does not excuse anybody's false doctrine.
     
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  19. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I have heard him say some questionable things during interviews, but what does he teach from his pulpit that is false?
     
  20. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    The statement above about God's sovereignty covers everybody. Concerning Osteen in particular, we could start with his prosperity health and wealth gospel, which I consider false. Also, if I remember correctly, he emphasizes self-esteem and tends to tell or indicate to people that they are good, while avoiding talk of sin.

    “Start calling yourself healed, happy, whole, blessed, and prosperous,” says Joel Osteen. That is name it and claim it stuff, or the power of positive thinking.
     
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