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Featured Has Joel Osteen's preaching saved anyone?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 22, 2021.

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  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    1 Corinthians 8:2-3
    Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.

    Who are you, oh man, to judge his heart?

    The only sin of John MacArthur's which I have pointed out is the sin of hypocrisy, which he is apparently guilty of:
    The Prosperous Lifestyle of America's Anti-Prosperity Gospel Preacher | The Roys Report

    Osteen, unlike MacArthur, takes no salary from his ministries.
     
    #61 Humble Disciple, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I am one who reads the Bible and sees that Joel Osteen refuses to call out sin and call for repentance. The video provides all the information needed from the lips of Joel Osteen to show that he is not teaching what our King teaches.

    It is interesting to read your comments. From them I would think you supported his church. Moreso, you use a faux claim that pointing out real theological error is somehow a sin and discernment to you has become judgment. I do not have your two-fence view of Joel Osteen.
     
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  3. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Should we judge Joel Osteen by what he preaches from the pulpit or what he says during a Larry King interview?



    Should we judge John MacArthur by what he preaches from the pulpit or what he says during a Ben Shapiro interview?

     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    What he says in an interview is what he says to those who listen to him. We can therefore call out his error and call him to repentance.

    The epistles are filled with the apostles calling out false teaching. Joel Osteen is shown to teach falsely, yet here you are supporting him.
     
  5. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I believe it was wrong for John MacArthur to give Ben Shapiro false assurance that unbelieving Jews are still God's chosen people, despite their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah, something he believes due to his dispensationalism, but I'm not going to condemn him for it.

    Why aren't you calling out John MacArthur for his dual-covenantism?
     
    #65 Humble Disciple, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The difference is Joel Osteen is claiming that people of other faiths can enter the Kingdom without coming through the shed blood of Jesus. That is a doctrine that gives false security. MacArthur's dispensationalism still demands that any Jew who is in the Kingdom must bow the knee to Jesus in order to be saved.
    Does that distinction mean nothing to you?
     
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  7. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I love Ben Shapiro as well as the Jewish people, but where does the Bible say that Jews who reject Jesus as the Messiah will be given a second chance?

    Hebrews 9:27
    and as it is reserved for men to die once, and after this—judgment

    When are you going to call out John MacArthur for giving Ben Shapiro false hope?
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    What false hope? Did he tell Ben Shapiro that he could enter heaven by keeping the law of Moses? Did he tell Ben Shapiro that there is more than one way by which he can be saved?

    I would disagree with MacArthur about the nation of Israel being the chosen people just by physical heritage to Jacob, but as far as I know MacArthur still preaches Christ and Christ crusified.
    Why do you support a false teacher who says there is more than one way to God?
     
  9. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    So would I, because it's a false teaching.

    Romans 9:7
    Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, 'It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.

    Can we give up, please, on the double standards?

    In the words of John Calvin, "How do we know that God has elected us before the creation of the world? By believing in Jesus Christ," not by the exactness of our theology.
     
    #69 Humble Disciple, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    They are not double standards. You are trying to compare an apple with a bicycle and claim they are the same. I have shown you the difference. You must be financially supporting Osteen because no Baptist would support Osteen like you do.
     
  11. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Matthew 7
    3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

    Are you financially supporting John MacArthur? Joel Osteen doesn't need my money. Unlike his critics, he doesn't take a salary from his ministries.

    The Prosperous Lifestyle of America's Anti-Prosperity Gospel Preacher | The Roys Report

    Here is the statement of faith from Osteen's church, for the world to see:
    About Lakewood Church
     
  12. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    We've been through a pandemic in which over 600,000 Americans have died. We need a message of hope now perhaps more than ever before. It's better if people find that message of hope from Bible-based preaching than from secular sources that have no intent to honor God.

    I have never heard Joel Osteen claim that if bad things happen to you in life, it’s a sign that your faith wasn’t genuine. Instead, he says keep on having faith and blessing other people until God uses your suffering to demonstrate His glory when your day of vindication comes.
     
    #72 Humble Disciple, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  13. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    The Power I Am, the sermon that Oprah Winfrey says changed the way she sees her life.
    Excerpt:
     
  14. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    When Satan is persecuting you in any aspect of your life, plead the blood of Jesus Christ for His spiritual protection.

    Exodus 12:13
    The blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you live; and when I see the blood I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt.

    Matthew 17:18-21
    Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment. Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?” He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

    Matthew 18:19
    Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

    Matthew 21:22
    And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.

    Mark 11:24
    Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

    Luke 6:38
    Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.

    John 14:13
    Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

    John 15:7
    If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

    John 15:16
    You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

    John 16:23-24
    In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you. Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

    Acts 16:25-26
    And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

    Romans 8:35-37
    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:“For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

    1 Corinthians 5:7
    Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

    2 Corinthians 9:6,10
    6 Remember this–a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop.
    10 For God is the one who provides seed for the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will provide and increase your resources and then produce a great harvest of generosity in you.

    Philippians 4:6-7
    Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

    Colossians 1:20
    And through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.

    Hebrews 10:19–23
    And so, dear brothers and sisters, we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus. By his death, Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. And since we have a great High Priest who rules over God’s house, let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise.

    1 Peter 1:18-19
    For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And it was not paid with mere gold or silver, which lose their value. It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

    James 1:5
    If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

    1 Peter 2:24
    He personally carried our sins in his body on the cross so that we can be dead to sin and live for what is right. By his wounds you are healed.

    1 John 3:22
    And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

    Revelation 12:10-11
    Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.



    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    #74 Humble Disciple, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  15. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I have updated this list of verses, so you will know the power of God in your life:

    Exodus 12:13
    The blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you live; and when I see the blood I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt.

    Isaiah 54:17
    no weapon forged against you will prevail, and you will refute every tongue that accuses you. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and this is their vindication from me,” declares the Lord.

    Psalm 23:4-5
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; My cup runs over.

    Psalm 91:5
    You shall not be afraid of the terror by night,
    Nor of the arrow that flies by day,

    Malachi 3:10–11
    Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the Lord of hosts.

    Matthew 6:25-34
    Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

    Matthew 17:18-21
    Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment. Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?” He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

    Matthew 18:19
    Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

    Matthew 21:22
    And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.

    Mark 10:29–30
    Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.

    Mark 11:24
    Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

    Mark 16:17-18
    And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

    Luke 6:38
    Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.

    Luke 10:19
    Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

    John 14:13
    Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

    John 15:7
    If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

    John 15:16
    You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

    John 16:23-24
    In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you. Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

    Acts 16:25-26
    And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

    Romans 8:31
    What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

    Romans 8:35-37
    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:“For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

    1 Corinthians 5:7
    Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

    2 Corinthians 9:6,10
    6 Remember this–a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. 10 For God is the one who provides seed for the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will provide and increase your resources and then produce a great harvest of generosity in you.

    Philippians 4:6-7
    Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

    Philippians 4:19
    And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.

    Colossians 1:20
    And through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.

    Hebrews 10:19–23
    And so, dear brothers and sisters, we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus. By his death, Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. And since we have a great High Priest who rules over God’s house, let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise.

    Hebrews 13:16
    So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can mere mortals do to me?

    1 Peter 1:18-19
    For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And it was not paid with mere gold or silver, which lose their value. It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

    1 Peter 3:12
    For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.

    James 1:5
    If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

    James 1:17
    Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

    James 4:7
    Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

    1 Peter 2:24
    He personally carried our sins in his body on the cross so that we can be dead to sin and live for what is right. By his wounds you are healed.

    1 John 3:22
    And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

    1 John 4:3-4
    but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

    Revelation 12:10-11
    Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
     
    #75 Humble Disciple, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  16. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Whether or not you like Joel Osteen's teachings, they didn't come from the New Thought or new age movements. Instead, they came from his father, John Osteen, a charismatic Baptist:
    John Osteen - Wikipedia

    While the New Thought movement started around the same time as the Pentecostal/charismatic movement, they are not one and the same.

    There are even charismatic Calvinists, no matter what John MacArthur might say:
    Can You Be a Reformed Charismatic? Matt Chandler Thinks So
     
    #76 Humble Disciple, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Do you see the irony in your post? Probably not.
    You are free to support a charlatan and blatant false teacher. I have explained how MacArthur and Osteen are theologically opposed. You have this bizarre imagination that I have placed MacArthur on some pedestal. From the early 80s he has not been my favorite preacher, but I acknowledge he preaches Christ and Christ crucified. Osteen does not. Osteen preaches humanism, make this life your best life.
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Osteen's message is a message of prosperity now while leaving out damnation for eternity. His message is ultimately not one of eternal hope. Follow him at the peril of your soul.
     
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Then why did you start a thread asking that very question?

    I can judge, as a Christian, any message and determine if it is consistent with the gospel given in scripture. Not withstanding the message you linked to, I have seen him state he is not led to preach about the cross of Christ. Paul stated plainly Jesus Christ and Him crucified is of first importance.

    I have seen preachers tell jokes and stories for 1/2 hour, and then present Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

    The jokes and stories are not the gospel. They don’t save anyone. The gospel is necessary for salvation and if a preacher won’t preach it, salvation is not possible.

    peace to you
     
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  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...that's typical Jew-worshipping Dispensationalism. Nothing new there.
     
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