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Featured Has Joel Osteen's preaching saved anyone?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 22, 2021.

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  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    When Satan is persecuting you in any aspect of your life, plead the blood of Jesus Christ for His spiritual protection.

    This doesn’t mean that you’ll never suffer in life, but no harm will befall you that’s contrary to God's purpose in your life.



     
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Why should it be either/or? Both are his words are they not?

    Is there a place (time-wise in the video) you can point to in the over-1-hour video that is what you are particularly referencing? I do not have time to listen to it all right now, though I am sure it is interesting.
     
    #82 rlvaughn, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Just trust your King. "Plead the blood" is not found anywhere in scripture, but trust God is everywhere.
     
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  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    John Osteen was a health and wealth, seed faith preacher. That doctrine comes straight from the New Thought Movement.

    I used to watch John Osteen from time to time, so I have heard it first-hand. I’ve also studied the New Thought Movement and know practitioners, and it is essentially the same thing with slightly different terminology. Joel Osteen has just added motivational speaking cliches and affirmations to the mix.

    False.

    Pentecostalism began at the beginning of the 20th century, and New Thought began in the 1820s, with Phineas P. Quimby.

    You are correct that the two movements are not the same, but New Thought entered Pentecostal/charismatic circles through Kenneth Hagen, who plagiarized the New Thought influenced writing of E.W. Kenyon.

    One can certainly be Pentecostal/charismatic without holding to New Thought, but anyone who teaches the prosperity gospel, seed faith, message embraces New Thought false teaching, whether they know it or not.
     
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  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    There's also the pentecostal line, coming from the Azusa St., LA. "revival" of 1906, which spawned the line of Aimee Semple Mc Pherson, Kenneth Hagin, Kathryn Kuhlman, William Branham, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, and others. I think "prosperity", etc. came from that gang, & not just the "speaking in tongues" & the "faith healers" crew. All are phonym as a $3 bill, but if God could use a pagan king of a pagan empire (Nebcuhadnezzar of Babylon) to write some of His word, He can use those "Ministers of Misinformation" to lead people to Jesus by causing them to study the claims of those clowns against Scripture, if nothing else.
     
  6. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I am a convinced Calvinist but, unlike John MacArthur, I'm not a heresy hunter.

     
  7. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I have never heard Joel Osteen claim that if bad things happen to you in life, it’s a sign that your faith wasn’t genuine. Instead, he says keep on having faith and blessing other people until God uses your suffering to demonstrate His glory when your day of vindication comes. In preaching this message, he quotes from the Bible from beginning to end.

    Pleading the blood of Jesus for spiritual protection didn't originate with the New Thought movement. In the words of Charles Spurgeon, “Christ’s intercessory power with God lies in His precious blood, and your power and mine with God in prayer must lie in that blood too… How can you ever prevail with God unless you plead the blood of Jesus?” Charles Spurgeon also said, “This precious blood is to be used for overcoming, and consequently for holy warfare. We dishonor it if we do not use it to that end.”

    What is Joel Osteen preaching in this sermon that's contrary to the words of Charles Spurgeon?

     
  8. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Unlike his critics, Joel Osteen doesn't take a salary from his church, and neither does he ask for money during his broadcasts. This is not exactly the stereotype of a "health and wealth" preacher.
     
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    He said Jesus forgave all your sins when He died on the cross… I. E. “Your sins are already forgiven.” That is a quote from the link you provided.

    Just “claim” what God has already given you. Another quote.

    I think Spurgeon would see forgiveness of sins as occurring with faith, not prior.

    peace to you
     
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Let's just cut to the quick in this thread. No preacher ever saved anyone. God saves, by his grace.
     
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  11. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Exactly. There's enough Biblical teaching in Joel Osteen's message for God to use it to draw His elect unto Himself.

     
  12. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Those are semantical differences or differences in emphasis. The point I was making is that Joel Osteen didn't make up the idea that there's power in the blood of Jesus beyond just the forgiveness of sin, and this idea didn't originate in the New Thought movement, which denies the atonement.

    In the words of Charles Spurgeon, “Christ’s intercessory power with God lies in His precious blood, and your power and mine with God in prayer must lie in that blood too... How can you ever prevail with God unless you plead the blood of Jesus?” Charles Spurgeon also said, “This precious blood is to be used for overcoming, and consequently for holy warfare. We dishonor it if we do not use it to that end.”
     
  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with the one sermon you linked to. Given his historical position of not being called to preach the cross of Christ, I hope he has changed his mind.

    peace to you
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You asked how his preaching differed from Spurgeon. I gave an example.

    That is a significant difference. To say “your sins are already forgiven you… just claim what God has already given you” compromises the doctrines of repentance and faith, not to mention eternal punishment of the lost.

    It certainly lays the foundation for universal salvation. Your sins are already forgiven, you are going yo heaven, just don’t miss out on all of God’s blessings in this life, buy my books and videos and ladies, buy my wife’s books and video does. I’m ok, your ok, and everything is going to be ok.

    That is strikingly different from Spurgeon.

    peace to you
     
  15. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Would Osteen himself interpret it that way or would he say you must accept Jesus' forgiveness for it to apply to you? Did you watch until the end when he gives the invitation to repent?

    When does Osteen ever make a sales pitch during his sermons or television broadcasts? Unlike his critics, Osteen doesn't draw a salary from his ministries, and he has no less right to his book sales as a Christian film maker would have from his movies.

    It seems like people have taken the stereotype of a televangelist and projected that onto Osteen, who doesn't ask for money during his broadcasts, doesn't try to sell anything, and who doesn't blame your supposed lack of faith if bad things happen to you in life.

     
    #95 Humble Disciple, Jul 25, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  16. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    This video is of Joel Osteen telling the story of how Lakewood church acquired the Compaq Center:


    How can one not see this as the work of divine providence? Similarly, I strongly disagree with his Arminianism, and yet I see the work of divine providence in John Wesley's life.
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Joel Osteen is a false teacher. If God saves anyone when he preaches, it will only be because the person started reading the Bible during Osteen's speech and the Bible convicted them. Osteen is likely not even saved himself.
     
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  18. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Are you basing that on what Osteen actually teaches from the pulpit or are you just parroting what John MacArthur and his ilk have told you?

    Unlike John MacArthur, Joel Osteen doesn't take a salary from his ministries, and his family isn't under SEC investigation.

    The Prosperous Lifestyle of America's Anti-Prosperity Gospel Preacher | The Roys Report

    Pot, meet kettle. Unlike other televangelists, neither does Osteen ask for money on his broadcasts or attempt to sell anything.

    If you don't see the above story as the work of God's providence, that might say more about you than it does about Joel Osteen. Unlike the scribes and Pharisees, however, I am not doubting your salvation. (Luke 18:9-14)
     
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I’ve seen enough to not like what he’s peddling.

    You go ahead and bash Johnny Mac and praise Olsteen.

    That just might say more about you than either of them.

    I’ll leave you to it.

    peace to you
     
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  20. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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