has the Christian Church Redefined Hell and Homosexuality?

First off you are adding to scripture again. He never says they will be restored. Not strange at all. They need an advocate to get saved. The saved are already forgiven.

 

Not true. The bible never teaches that.

 

:thumbsup:

An unfortunate truth (concerning the sin part, not the forgiveness part).

 

Where is the word "gnostic" in the text? Isn't it just your opinion that John is speaking to gnostics and not to Christians?

 

The word is not there as you know. I would point you to this paper.
http://www.bibleone.net/print_tbs61.html

Also to this post # 93;
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1755111&posted=1#post1755111

 

Who are the "we" of 1 John?

1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

The saved.

HankD​

 

No it is not always the saved. The context decides who is being spoken of.
1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
These are the lost.
1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
These are saved
1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
These are lost. and so on.

 

He is talking to the church about the teachings of the gnostics.

 

Freeatlast is in error here.

Nonsense. Those are the saved. You may be aware of this letter addressing gnosticism, but that's where it stops with you. There is no transition from believers to unbelievers. What you're teaching is false. Note he says "us"? Who does that refer to? Do you see that? It refers to both the church (the saved) and to John (also saved) thus "us." According to you, he would then be claiming he too is lost. It couldn't be any more clear. You're in clear error here, and you've been shown this on many occasions. This is how absurdly incorrect you are in your philosophy and misinterpretations.

 

No it is dealing with the false teaching of the Gnostics. Believers do not walk in the darkness. We may do a deed of darkness but we do not walk in it 1John 3:9 . That is continual action. Look it up. The letter is dealing with false teachings, not Christians who are in sin. It is a contrast between the lost and the saved within the parameters of what the Gnostics taught and the gospel teaches.

 

The we goes back and forth. It is not speaking so as to include Himself in every sentence. it is like saying what did we do today? The we is not speaking of self in such cases. The same with 1John.

 

He's in error, and the passage is clear.

Unfortunately for him it doesn't support his own philosophy about Christians and sin, and fellowship, and confessing sin, being washed, the cycle of fellowship and a daily walk. Frankly he refuses to embrace this truth because it proves him false. This is nothing but pride in his case, which by the way is sin.

John the apostle part of the group of the lost which he refers to as "us?" Not hardly.

We've admonished Gerald enough concerning his fallacious teachings here. No need to continue to do so.

 

FAL, you may not want to hear this but the saved can lie and walk in darkness and deny the truth.

Look at the Corinthian Christians and those of the church of Thyatira.

Look at Peter when He denied his Lord and made curses along with the lie.
Was he walking in the light then, was he speaking the truth?

However when we judge ourselves and repent then the Lord will not judge us.

1 Corinthians 11

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.​

HankD

 

No, I am glad you bring it up so I can show you it is wrong. You are confusing walking in darkness (sin) which is the practice of sin and the committing a sin from time to time. Come on now, Peter was not in the practice of denying the Lord, (walking in darkness). Those who were dying at Corinth were not dying because of practicing sin (walking in darkness). They were taking the table with improper motives and did not even know why some were sick and some were dead. That is why it had to be explained to them. By the way taking the table improperly is the only reason scripture gives for a believer being made sick or struck dead by the Lord and my guess is that it only takes one time.
So your suggestion that Christians can walk in darkness (sin) is incorrect.

 

Uh...am I reading this right? I can't believe it.

 

Originally Posted by mandym
Grace and mercy come after repentance not before.

That is one of those optical conclusions. :laugh:

 

The Problem with Gnostics is.....

.....they can't see the "truth" beyond the tip of their nose :smilewinkgrin: