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Has the church exchanged Bible theology for godless humanism?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Hermeneut7, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Hermeneut7

    Hermeneut7 Member
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    The recent uproar in Charlottesville prompted me to assemble some views that clash with the main stream media and most who take the name of Christ in this day. Could the body of Christ have been so wrong for some many years?

    19th Century Lutheran Scholar -
    "Slavery, Humanism & the Bible" by C.F.W. Walther (1811-1887) First President of the LCMS:
    "Is therefore slavery a sin which must be unconditionally opposed, or should Christians concentrate on doing away with the connected sinfulness, so that the relationship between slave and master is according to God’s will and order, according to the laws of justice, fairness, and love. We therefore hold that abolitionism, which deems slavery a sin and therefore considers every slave holder a criminal and strives for its eradication, is the result of unbelief in its development of nationalism, deistic philanthropy, pantheism, materialism, and atheism. It is a brother of modern socialism, Jacobinism and communism."

    Slavery, Humanism, & the Bible

    19th Century Presbyterian Scholar -
    "A Defense of Virginia and the South", by Professr Robert L. Dabney (1820-1898) American Christian theologian, Southern Presbyterian pastor, Confederate States Army chaplain - available online:

    "One passage of the New Testament remains to be noticed. It is that which commands the exclusion of Abolitionist teachers from church communion, 1 Tim. vi.3-5. St. Paul had just enjoined on this young minister the giving of proper moral instruction to servants. The pulpit was to teach them the duty of subordination to masters, as to rightful authority; and if those masters were also Christians, then the obligation was only the stronger. See v.1,2. The apostle then proceeds, v. 3, 'If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness,' (the opposite teaching of abolitionism contradicts Christ's own word,) 'he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.'" pages 185, 186

    A defence of Virginia, (and through her, of the South) in recent and pending contests against the sectional party : Dabney, Robert Lewis, 1820-1898 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

    19th Century Southern Baptist Scholar -
    James Petigru Boyce (1827-1888), founder of the first SBC seminary and author of Abstract of Systematic Theology

    "I believe I see in all this the end of slavery. I believe we are cutting its throat, curtailing its domain. And I have been, and am, an ultra pro-slavery man. Yet I bow to what God will do. I feel that our sins as to this institution have cursed us, – that the Negroes have not been cared for in their marital and religious relations as they should be; and I fear God is going to sweep it away, after having left it thus long to show us how great we might be, were we to act as we ought in this matter."

    James Petigru Boyce, Baptist Founder

    Virginia was the first civil government to ban the slave trade, 1778, and look forward to the end of slavery:

    Founders Online: Bill to Prevent the Importation of Slaves, &c., [16 June 1777]

    For a Bible based Christian, the Battle Hymn of the Republic is rank heresy, and it was the theology of the north:

    The Anti-Christian Battle Hymn
     
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure what your point is.
    Are you advocating for slavery?
    What is your definition of humanism?
    Are you referring to specific congregations?
    Please clarify because your links don't connect to humanism, but instead point to Christians who promoted slavery.
     
  3. Hermeneut7

    Hermeneut7 Member
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    The first link for the Lutheran article explains what is meant by humanism contrasted to biblical doctrine. Read it. The reason for the links is for you to read it for yourself in context.
     
  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    But, I don't even know what your question is. The links don't fit with the question.
     
  5. Hermeneut7

    Hermeneut7 Member
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    Here are the first 2 paragraphs of the first link, the Lutheran scholar.

    "It is an irrefutable fact that humanism has not only supplanted Christianity among a large part of the current population, it has also infected Christian theology in its very inner core, has poisoned and weakened it. We define humanism as the belief in a human ideal, a belief that man within himself has the ability to develop into a state of completeness and achieve happiness. Therefore, in order to reach this ideal state nothing else is needed than to grant each person as much room as possible to develop freely and without restraint. Freedom and equality, equal rights, equal possessions, equal enjoyment and pleasure, are thus the goal of man’s striving, the attainment of which will eradicate poverty and suffering from this earth. Happiness will have found its domicile on earth, there will be heaven on earth.


    This humanism is as old as the fallen world itself. As soon as man had fallen away from God, he became aware of the bitter consequences of his sin, of the curse under which God had placed this earth because of him. Despite all that still had remained for man, he felt dissatisfied, unhappy, and wretched. However, instead of recognizing his sin as the cause of his wretchedness, seeking to return to God and His help, he saw the consequences themselves as the cause, and deemed that he could achieve happiness by gaining what this world has to offer."

    You apparently do not read the articles for the entire article shows how abolitionism is humanism, not biblical. Nowhere in God's word is slavery in and of itself condemned as sin, nor the slave owner called a sinner for that fact. That idea comes from humanism, not God's word. Slavery was a fact of life and the Bible regulated it, but did not condemn it as sin. The ending of slavery was probably due more to the industrial revolution than anything.
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    'The past is another country; they do things differently there.'
    1st Century Rome was not a democracy; you didn't demonstrate or get up petitions against things you didn't like.

    But writing to Philemon, Paul says, 'For perhaps he [the slave Onesimus] departed for a while for this purpose, that you might receive him forever, no longer as a slave, but more than a slave-- a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord' (Philemon 15-16). Privately, Paul is telling Philemon that he can no longer keep Onesimus as a slave, and if not him, then no one.

    If you have the time, look up William Knibb, Baptist missionary to Jamaica and anti-slavery campaigner.
     
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  7. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    So, the topic is: Has humanism become a problem in the church?

    The answer is yes.

    Talk to your typical synergist and you are talking to a person who sees himself as integral to God's work of salvation. He sees himself as honorable in nature for having rationally and reasonably chosen Jehovah God above all other gods.
     
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  8. Hermeneut7

    Hermeneut7 Member
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    I don't understand how you see Paul telling Onesimus he can no longer keep him as a slave.

    Philips - "It occurs to me that there has been a purpose in your losing him. You lost him, a slave, for a time; now you are having him back for good, not merely as a slave, but as a brother-Christian. He is already especially loved by me - how much more will you be able to love him, both as a man and as a fellow-Christian!"

    Weymouth - ""For perhaps it was for this reason he was parted from you for a time, that you might receive him back wholly and for ever yours; no longer as a slave, but as something better than a slave--a brother peculiarly dear to me, and even dearer to you, both as a servant and as a fellow Christian."
     
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