Have MV's caused more confusion than good?

I fail understand why you seem to always seem to manifest such a mean spirit in these discussions.

Do I deny that confusion is caused by versions? Yes, I do.

Confusion is caused by Christians who do not take the time to study an issue and act accordingly. The way to adjust is, as suggested above, use the same Bible as the pastor uses when he preaches.

I generally preach out of the KJV, people in our church use the NKJV, the NIV, the ESV, and a Polish bible. There have been Tagalog and Afrikaner bibles in services as well as others. I have yet to see people looking around in confusion because of their Bible version. Perhaps it is because people are looking for something from the Lord and not hung up on specific translations or versions.

The example above really confuses me and the "testimony" question. That was not on topic first of all because we are not talking about confusions within translations, but confusion caused by using different versions. I won't get into the "second of all" because it would take this discussion back off topic, and I don't want the prophecies of imminent closure to come true .

 

And...

The confusion is not in the so-called modern versions. Every legitimate MV I have read presents the Gospel (God's word) just as God has preserved it for us - accurately, inerrantly and perfectly. The problem lies with the fact that some folks confuse the preservation of God's word with the preservation of a particular set of translated English words. God's word and English words are not the same, although some people are confused by the differences. The meanings of some words such as prevent (1 Thessalonians 4:15) have changed over the years since 1611, while the Gospel message, or God's word, has not changed in any way, shape or form. There is no new way of being saved found in any MV I have read.

Can confusion come from using one of the KJVs? Of course it can. In the KJVs Ahaziah, king of Israel, is said in 2 Kings 8:26 to have been 22 years old when he began his reign, yet in 2 Chronicles 22:2 his age is given as 42 years old. Another example of confusion found in the KJVs is the use of the word "Easter" in Acts 12:4 when in all other appearances of the original pa/sxa (transliterated as pascha) it is translated as "Passover."

Even more confusion is caused by those who try to "make mountains out of mole hills" by condemning modern versions for saying something when the KJVs have the same readings. An example of this can be found in Askjo's posts condemning the MVs for the supposed contradiction in "is not true" and "is true" (John 5:31 and John 8:14).

The same "contradiction" condemned in the MVs is found in the KJV of 1611 and later editions. Taking verses out of context to "prove" a point is also a root of much confusion. In these verses we find Jesus speaking at different times and in different situations. When these verses are taken out of context, using any version, it can appear Jesus is contradicting Himself. However, that is not the case at all.

As has already been suggested, why don't you try carrying the same version read in the pulpit? It certainly is easier to follow along when you're reading the same version the preacher is reading. Our pastor always reads from a KJV, so I carry a KJV to church with me. Beside that, the print in the KJV I carry to church is larger than the print in some of the other Bibles I own - and with eyesight weakened by age and diabetes, and I find use of a larger print keeps me from having to use a magnifier or place the Bible at the end of my nose.

 

Nice post!

My fears appear to be coming true: I will have to abandon any hope of finding an English translation that I can trust and feel comfortable with, and constantly check multiple versions and research root words (from multiple sources, since sources often do not agree) to do even the most basic Bible reading. My period of optimistic ignorance is going to have to come to an end and I will have to face the sad truth that no English translation, and few, if any, translations from other languages, can be trusted to be true to what God really means in a given passage.

I've always preferred to stand on God's word, and resisted man's efforts to make God's word mean anything he chooses. But that is getting harder every day, as word meanings change and philosophy continues its assault on language itself. Everywhere, I see only struggles to maintain any meaning at all in language. Post-modernism....hate it.

Sure wish C.S. Lewis was here to rewrite and expand his "The Abolition of Man."

 

Why?

Do your research, find a solid translation, and stick with it. Depend on the Holy Spirit to illuminate your reading and rejoice in reading God's word.

 

From 2 Mexdeaf 3:12- "Confusion cometh not from the words of God, but from the flesh of man."

This is why we are admonished to STUDY the word of God. Too many Christians want it cut, dried, chopped up into little pieces; pre-chewed, easily digested, and in a form which their flesh is accustomed to and which 'makes sense' to their carnal mind instead of taking the time to get dirty and dig in the mines of the Word. Much study is a weariness of the flesh.

To attempt to limit oneself to ANY version as the be-all-to-end-all is to stunt one's spiritual growth, IMHO.

 

I've jumped to the end on this one so, someone may have made this point already...

But, for several weeks, maybe a few months, I did a generalized study of the early church fathers.

Some of these men actually knew an apostle or two and several of the original disciples of the Lord.

The point is that there was confusion even then when the eye-witnesses walked the earth and knew exactly what the Lord had said in the flesh.

Also, after about AD100 (John left the scene) the confusion abounded and almost all the heresies known (in one form or another) were born before the 4th and 5th centiries.

So, the confusion IMO is not a function of the MV's but satan and those whom he uses (ignorantly or otherwise). The translators of most MV's want to honor the Lord and His Word. It's the old story of the wheat and the tares and other parabolic examples.

Matthew 13

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.​

Someone else said it: Learn the Greek and Hebrew. Think of all the non-spiritual nonsense we get invovled in and the time and money we waste on it/them (myself included). Some advice FWIW: Invest at least the same resource in the spiritual.

Anyone who has learned enough and attained the knowledge to be able to master the art and science of Information Technology sufficient to logon and use the BB has enough smarts to learn the Greek/Hebrew alphabets and how to use a lexicon.

Also there are sites such as the Blue Letter Bible and others where all the tools and Bible versions a novice could dream of are available for nada.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

Luke 12:48 ... For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.​

HankD​

 

Thanks for mentioning the Blue Letter Bible. That site looks like a wonderful resource. If there are any other resources you care to mention, do tell!

 

Then they need to study the issue out.

 

Here is a simple way to avoid confusion when attending a church where people have different versions of the Bible. First, use the version/translation of your choice for your own study, carry, witnessing, etc. Then ask the church to project the text the pastor is using up on the screen (most churches have screens now, right?), then everyone can follow him on the screen in the version he is reading from. They can make notes in their bulletin, then write them in their preferred translation once they get home. In Sunday School most of the quarterlies I have used print the text right in them (KJV & NIV is what I see the most). You can use the same technique that I suggested for church service - just follow along in the quarterly and make your notes at home. You only have to be confused if you choose to be confused. Bruce

 

I agree with some other posters that whatever confusion exists today is due more to a general dumbing-down among Christians than it is a problem with translations being obscure or misleading. It's really not that hard to keep up when the pastor is using a different version. And the divergences are less obvious when the comparison is between essentially literal translations. The ESV and NASB don't differ that much, for example, but the ESV and NLT do. Even then, the problem is a looseness in wording, not necessarily a difference in theology. Studying, or at least being aware of, as many versions as possible is a great benefit, in my opinion.

 

Having read the whole thread, I will come down on the side that feels the only reason any member is confused by the reading of a different version is because there is a general dumbing down of Christianity. (ok, so no one is surprised :laugh: )

We have to study the Scripture in whole to look at the parts. We have to look at the parts to understand the whole. This isn't a "I'm gonna hear what the preacher has to say about it on Sunday" endeavor. This is a life-long work. Having different versions and a variety of study tools is an enhancement to that study.

As to missing verses - there aren't that many. I pulled my ESV and NASB off the shelf (those are the ones handy - the others are in the room in which Ron is napping, so they'll have to wait), and looked at Mark 9. The missing verses are mentioned in the side/footnotes of both with enough information to glean what the verses were in addition to why they were left out of both.

I'm not only MV for modern version, but I'm MV for multiple versions. I'm so very grateful to have them all to read.

 

Can I repeat this?

Also, it's important to know English properly, when translating from Greek to English, so you will know what a present, active, participle is.

Edited to add: I think that dumbing down America is a very powerful tool that Satan uses to confuse the understanding of Scriptures. As one of my teachers used to say: "How can I teach someone Greek when they don't even understand English?"

 

In most of those cases, those are verses that the KJV has added, not that MVs have omitted. I use primarily the KJV, but I make notes on those verses that have been added, and for this very reason. I know that some printed MVs have blank spaces by the verse number where the KJV has added verses.

 

For awhile I noticed that people would talk and tried to guess what version I preached from. So one of them decided to ask me. I told him it was the UBS 4. He looked puzzled. Then asked some more questions. I finally told him it was a Greek Bible. Never got any more questions after that about what I preached from. They had no way of evaluating that issue.

 

So, a simple question. If you were a Christian in England in 1614 and were lucky enough to own a Geneva Bible would you have been confused by the preacher reading out of the MV (the KJV)?