HCSB > KJVs (examples)

Ed Edwards · Oct 19, 2004

I found one of those here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/4/1744.html#000000

I searched page 1 for "New Age" and found nothing.
I searched page 2 and found nothing.
Sorry, I work or travel 11 hours a day;
I don't have time to research the board.

Michelle: "Acts 20

29. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears."

Here is how you are required by me to post scripture
references:

Acts 20:29-31 (KJV1769):

29. For I know this, that after my departing shall
grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30. Also of your own selves shall men arise,
speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the
space of three years I ceased not to warn every
one night and day with tears.

And thank you for the Biblical reference to
radical KJV Only advocates. Caveat: "radical KJV Only
advocate"s refer only to those KJVO#4 and KJVO#5
who don't bother to converse but are good at
propagandizing. This is a description of a shoe,
if the shoe fits - wear it.

av1611jim: "Anecdotal evidence is just about as weighty as opinion."

Anecedotal has a fact rating of 1.
Opinion has a fact rating of zero.
There are facts with a fact rating over 1.
So your statement is close to true, but not
close enough to true to preclude her saying it.
Thank you Sister Deborah B for sharing.

Ed Edwards · Oct 19, 2004

Jude 1:4 (HCSB):

For certain men, who were designated for this judgment
long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly,
turning the grace of our God into promiscuity
and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:4 (KJV1611);

For there are certaine men crept in vnawares,
who were before of olde ordained to this condemnation,
vngodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciuiousnesse,
and denying the onely Lord God, & our Lord Iesus Christ.

The KJV differentiates betweeen "Lord God"
and "our Lord Iesus"." By contrast HCSB
contains a clear testomony that our Soverign
and Master is the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Greek word translated "Lord" in the KJV,
"Master" in the HCSB, and "Soverign" in the NIV
is a much stronger term than "Lord", in fact is the strongest
possible Greek term for authority and
leadership. "Master" or "Soverign" is a stronger
translation than mere "Lord". Also, as for consistancy,
"Lord" is used to translate weaker Greek terms.

This is a very strong scripture in the HCSB
regarding the Lordship of Jesus - much stronger
in the HCSB than in the KJVs.

AVL1984 · Oct 19, 2004

Michele, I understand you totally, believe me. I've been there, done that. I'm not, however going to let you keep switching the rules without saying something.

So, you need to answer the question...is the HCSB the Word of God? If no, why not, SPECIFICALLY? If the KJV is the "perfect, inerrant Word of God...explain why it is. Don't go on long tangeants of KJV posting, it will be ignored by me. I know all the arguments you're going to make from that. As I said, I've been there, done that? What are your historical evidences? What sources back you up?

michelle · Oct 19, 2004

--------------------------------------------------
The KJV differentiates betweeen "Lord God"
and "our Lord Iesus"." By contrast HCSB
contains a clear testomony that our Soverign
and Master is the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Greek word translated "Lord" in the KJV,
"Master" in the HCSB, and "Soverign" in the NIV
is a much stronger term than "Lord", in fact is the strongest
possible Greek term for authority and
leadership. "Master" or "Soverign" is a stronger
translation than mere "Lord". Also, as for consistancy,
"Lord" is used to translate weaker Greek terms.

--------------------------------------------------

Yes, this is true in the Mystery Schools Religions a.k.a. freemasonry and gnosticism. You do have that correct.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

Ed Edwards · Oct 19, 2004

Sister Michelle, you start with error
axioms and you end up with wrong
conclusions.

russell55 · Oct 19, 2004

Yes, this is true in the Mystery Schools Religions a.k.a. freemasonry and gnosticism. You do have that correct.

I have no idea what you mean by this. Could you explain?

gb93433 · Oct 19, 2004

Originally posted by michelle:

Yes, this is true in the Mystery Schools Religions a.k.a. freemasonry and gnosticism.

That's only a small number of them.

gb93433 · Oct 19, 2004

Michelle are you going to be reactionary or discuss the issues? In the post you just wrote you used the same exact English the pagans would use. Does that make you a pagan? In 1 Jn the writer addresses the gnostics in your KJV, my NASU and my UBS 4 Rev. and my NA 27. Even in your Stephens text.

Ed Edwards · Oct 19, 2004

Early unicals in Greek used a method of
abbreviation.
Normaly "God" in full in Greek is "theta epsilon omicron sigma"
But this is abreviated by "theta sigma" which
is overlined.

"He" in Greek is "omicron sigma".

Theta is like our "O" with a small horizontal
bar in the middle. Omicron is like our letter "O"
I wish i could do Greek letters here,
the overlined "theta sigma" is very like
the "omicron sigma" especially when in a line
of Greek text without puncuation and spaces.

Consider 1 Timothy 3:16 in the KJV1769 and the HCSB.
In the KJV1769 appears "God" (overlined "theta sigma"),
in HCSB is "He" ("omicron sigma") with a note that
some sources have "God".

IMHO "God" was in the original and some scribe copied
the "He' instead. But God's written word, preserved
for us is CORRECT in both versions.

Phillip · Oct 19, 2004

Originally posted by Deborah B.:
Terry,

I own an HCSB. As I have posted on here before, I spent many years trying to read the KVJ and never understood a lot of it. The language is NOT anything we use today. Do you actually think that God would only have one 400-year-old archaic English Bible and have many in my generation and generations to come not understand His words???? Think about it!!! Do you not understand that God promised to preserve His words (NOT A TRANSLATION) for all generations? The KJV is obviously not working totally for me or my children or the girls I teach at church as far as comprehension. But guess what? They are understanding every part that I have read to them from the HCSB!!!! Hmmmm, sounds like God has once again made truth of His promise!

In Christ,
Deborah

Deborah,
This is a REAL WORLD example of what I have been telling people such as Michelle about the difficulties of the KJV. I myself (who grew up with a KJV) cannot read it for only a few minutes before I am tired. Give me an HCSB or other good translation and I literally devour it. God Bless you!

Do you have ANY doubt after reading parts of the translation that you are not reading the Words of God?

Are you able to understand God's messages to you?

I think I know your answers, just making my point.

michelle · Oct 19, 2004

--------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, this is true in the Mystery Schools Religions a.k.a. freemasonry and gnosticism. You do have that correct.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have no idea what you mean by this. Could you explain?
--------------------------------------------------

Sure. Masters and Soveriegns are commonly used terms in the Mystery Schools, such as Freemasonry and gnosticism, and since these things are becoming quite popular and acceptable within christianity, I find this very dangerous. They have no such place to describe our LORD GOD, nor our LORD AND SAVIOUR Jesus Christ in such verses as these. Jesus Christ is never referred to after his resurrection as master or teacher. These were terms used when Jesus was walking here on earth. He is now, and in these verses at the right hand of our Father in Heaven, and is most definately our Lord.

It is up to you to find this trivial, which I am sure many of you do. I do not see it this way however. Terms of our precious Lord and Saviour, are being changed to fit New Age terminologies ever so subtley, that are foriegn to the churches.
All I leave you with in this, is to ask why? Why change such long standing words and titles concerning our Lord? What about the name/word "Lord" do people not understand today in our language that justifies such a drastic change to substitute with such masonic and gnostic terms?

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

Ed Edwards · Oct 19, 2004

Michelle: I need to know how you know.
The mysteries of the gnostics is that they
know stuff we who aren't in the know
don't know. So how do you know what you
said in the last post?

michelle · Oct 20, 2004

Here is a great website with abundant information on freemasonry:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/

and...

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/2index.html

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

Deborah B. · Oct 20, 2004

Originally posted by Phillip:

Do you have ANY doubt after reading parts of the translation that you are not reading the Words of God?

No doubt whatsoever!!! In fact, I actually feel spiritually "lifted" after reading from the HCSB. It is hard to put into words. Maybe it is finally enlightenment after 30+ years of reading from KJV and not really KNOWING for sure if I had interpreted the scriptures from the KJV as God intended, not to mention most of the time walking away with a migraine and frustration just from trying to discern the endless run-on sentences on top of the archaic language. Those days are long gone. God has answered my many prayers about comprehending His words and placed the HCSB in my hands!

Are you able to understand God's messages to you?

Absolutely, 100%!!! I was once scared to even consider an MV, but I honestly believe that God in His perfect glory took away my fears and led me to the HCSB. Nobody in the KJVO camp will ever convince me otherwise. I know how I feel, the KJVO's don't!!! I can feel the enlightenment He has led me to, and that is PROOF enough for me!!! God's approval is all I need!

I think I know your answers, just making my point. [/QB]

Praise Christ Jesus!

Deborah

Deborah B. · Oct 20, 2004

Originally posted by michelle:
[QB] --------------------------------------------------
quote:
Jesus Christ is never referred to after his resurrection as master or teacher. These were terms used when Jesus was walking here on earth. He is now, and in these verses at the right hand of our Father in Heaven, and is most definately our Lord.
_________________________________________________

Jesus was never referred to as "Master"??? Well here are a couple of verses from the KJV referring to Him as Master after His resurrection:

Col 4:1 Masters,give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither, is there respect of persons with him.

_________________________________________________

Michelle asked: All I leave you with in this, is to ask why? Why change such long standing words and titles concerning our Lord?
_________________________________________________

Why did HCSB use "Master"? Plain and simple, see the KJV Strong's reference to 1203 below.

Jud 1:4 For1063 there are certain5100 men444 crept in unawares,3921 who were before of old ordained4270, 3819 to1519 this5124 condemnation,2917 ungodly men,765 turning3346 the3588 grace5485 of our2257 God2316 into1519 lasciviousness,766 and2532 denying720 the3588 only3441 Lord1203 God,2316 and2532 our2257 Lord2962 Jesus2424 Christ.5547 (KJV with Strong's)

The word that KJV used for Lord (G1203) is:
G1203
δεσπότης
despotēs
des-pot'-ace
Perhaps from G1210 and πόσις posis (a husband); an absolute ruler (“despot”): - Lord, master.

Then notice the same word "Lord" 2962 that comes right after "Lord" 1203:

κύριος
kurios
koo'-ree-os
From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God, Lord, master, Sir.

HCSB is the better translation because it states that Jesus is both "Master" and "Lord".

Jude 1:4(HCSB) For certain men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Your argument here is nothing but a scare tactic Michelle. You are trying to scare people to think that the HCSB is gnostic or new age, and you are flat out WRONG! You really need to check on the Greek, even from your KJV, before you post your nonsense.
_________________________________________________

Michelle said: What about the name/word "Lord" do people not understand today in our language that justifies such a drastic change to substitute with such masonic and gnostic terms?
_________________________________________________

Is Jesus you master Michelle? Just remember, one day you are going to have to stand before the Lord and give account to why you would state such lies about His word. It is a great thing that you hold so dear to your KJV, but why would you even want to defame God's words that are more understandable to this generation and the next?? Remember His promise to preserve His words for all generations??? 1600's, 1700's are not my generation! I pray for you sister!

I say it again, Christ Jesus was, is, and will forever be our Lord and Master! And the HCSB states so too!

In Christ,
Deborah

David J · Oct 20, 2004

Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
Ed, why do you want to compare a second rate commentary to the KJV?

And why should we honor your second rate comments with no evidence to back up what you are saying?

Ed Edwards · Oct 20, 2004

David J.: It is called trolling

Board rule #5:

5. No trolling. Trolling consists of provoking large volumes of responses by posting absurdities, deliberately offensive insults, etc.

Ed Edwards · Oct 20, 2004

Originally posted by Deborah B.:
I say it again, Christ Jesus was, is, and will forever be our Lord and Master! And the HCSB states so too!

In Christ,
Deborah

Amen, Sister Deborah -- Preach it!

mioque · Oct 20, 2004

Michelle
Those 2 websites you mentioned in your last post.
The first claims that the plans of the NWO to take over the world are revealed in a cardgame.

And that second site is rather pro-Roman-Catholic.

AVL1984 · Oct 20, 2004

mioque, they also have nothing to do with this thread....again.

HCSB > KJVs (examples)

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