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Heaven populated w/out the cross?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Luke2427, Jan 26, 2011.

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  1. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    When I say "fair", I do not mean in our view - but in God's view. :)
     
  2. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    There is no doubt that your belief is a logical understanding but scripture says this;
    Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    death is the evidence that sin has taken place.For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Sinless people do not die. babies die, not because they actually sinned some personal sin themselves, but because they sinned in Adam. They are sinners by association, or by birth. So yes they have sinned, not because of their own actions, but because of Adam's actions.
    Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
     
    #42 freeatlast, Jan 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2011
  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    It is when we do not have clear Scriptural mandate of how or if some are saved. Whether babies go to heaven or not is a mystery to us.
     
  4. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    I am not sure of the distinction, but i do know that He works through grace. Unmerrited actions.
     
  5. R. Lawson

    R. Lawson New Member

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    Yep. I would never worship a god that puts babies/infants in Hell.
     
  6. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    many people are in your group who have a god that conforms to their standards. Unless we accept the true and living God no matter how or what he is we do not get the God of the bible. This is the God who commanded the Hebrew people to kill the babies of their enemies by dashing their heads on rocks, just in case you did not know. Secondly you seem to think that certain people deserve to go to heaven. That too is error.
     
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    You are equating death with being a sinner. I agree death is the evidence sin has taken place in the world. Death is not the evidence of guilt. I'm going to die, and yet I'm not guilty. Animals and plants die, yet they are not sinners. Death and sin go hand in hand, but the fact we die or are told that in Adam all die does not mean in Adam we are sinners. Ephesians 2 tells us As for you, you were dead in yourtransgressions and sins,
     
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I disagree. Robb has conformed his standards to God's justice. It is the Augustinians that don't understand hamartiology regarding infants as evidenced by the need to baptize them.
     
    #48 webdog, Jan 26, 2011
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  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    But it's not. It's only a mystery to those who hold to AOS. We have a clear account on how sinners are saved given to us...there is no mystery whatsoever.
     
  10. R. Lawson

    R. Lawson New Member

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    I still stand by my original statement, regardless. Eternal damnation vs. dashing babies on rocks...right.
     
  11. R. Lawson

    R. Lawson New Member

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    Precisely. THANK YOU, Bro! :thumbsup:
     
  12. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    It's kind of like "fair" to a parent and to a child - most of the time it will be different. LOL
     
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    But you worship a God who killed innocent babies who were killed not because of anything they did.
     
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Well, you believe babies have no sin at all and are morally and spiritually pure at birth, is that correct? See, I do not see that in Scripture and so, I see babies going to heaven is a mystery. I cannot say that they go to heaven due to their own merit. I cannot say that they go to heaven because they gave a profession of faith. If they go to heaven, God knows why and I do not. That is a mystery.
     
  15. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    It's better that God had His people dash babies heads on rocks - and better that He took them at His own hand?? Really??
     
  16. R. Lawson

    R. Lawson New Member

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    It's better that they did not end up in Hell.:godisgood:
     
  17. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    What Scripture do you have to support that?
     
  18. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    But suppose He does (and I'm not saying He does), will you demand to be let out of Heaven when you get there because He put some of those babies in hell ?
     
  19. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    I understand your analogy, and yes we do things because we feel that they are right, but they not apply to God. Again fairness is the idea that we deserve something or that the person doing the action is in some part responsible to do the act towards another because of what is right. Salvation is not about God doing what is right. The right thing is eternal seperation from God. Grace goes far beyond that. Grace is a gift or action given that is not deserved. In other words the person who grace is being shed on has no right to the gift other then the fact that it was offered. They are receiving something in their unworthiness with is not about fairness.
    God did not choose the Hebrew people because it was right. The same with anyhting He does,
     
    #59 freeatlast, Jan 26, 2011
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  20. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    But you do not know where they end up. You are trying to justify your logic with circular reasoning to hold to a god as well as a doctrine that fits your ideals.
     
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