Heaven populated w/out the cross?

Dont forget MERCY.

 

Those are nice words and true ones also, but what constitutes righteousness and justice in this case?

 

Until your own child dies in your arms.

 

I rejoice to know that the souls of all infants, as soon as they die, speed their way to Paradise. Charles Spurgeon

 

What an incredible misinterpretation of what they have posted. Plus jumping to conclusions and misrepresenting what they said. I've had about enough.


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You showed me that one Roman Catholic (not two as I have proven) said the apostles passed on to the church man is regenerated by the Spirit and baptism. If you believe the apostles actually taught this, your agnostic beliefs are the least of your concerns. I would like ORTHODOX commentary stating that the MAJORITY of the early church held to this view.

I'll be waiting.....

 

I've only had to do this with 2 people in 6 years. It looks like #3 is on the horizon for me as well. Ignorance is not bliss, it's blistering.

 

Here we go again, tip-toeing through the "TULIP"!!

Lets take the Word and I will do my best to show you something!!

Luke 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.I believe this is in reference to our inheritance we had with the Father before He imputed sin unto us.

14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.You can't "join yourself", you must be added.

16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.No man can give you salvation, only by God Almighty!!

17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! Ah, here is where the "drawing: takes place!!

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.He came back an humble man.

20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Now, look very closely at verse 24 and the Father said my son was dead, and is alive again!!!. Now if he wasn't born alive like Total Depravity concludes, then how could this "son" be alive again when he retirned to Father's house? Here's is where I make my stance on babies that die go to heaven. They haven't left Father's house yet. Until this son left his Father's house, he was safe(alive). But, when he left the comforts of home, he wasted what he had, and no one but Father could help him then....this is when Total Depravity kicks in. To be "alive again" means to have had life prior to death, correct? Why use the word "again", if this wasn't the case? I believe that baies are born under the safety of God because they do not know right from wrong. They have the "sin nature" of the flesh, but they do not know that what they are doing is wrong in the sight of God.

Rom. 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Rom. 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom. 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Deut. 1:34 And the LORD heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,

35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers.

36 Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him will I give the land that he hath trodden upon, and to his children, because he hath wholly followed the LORD.

37 Also the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, saying, Thou also shalt not go in thither.

38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.

39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

So you see here in Deut. chapter 1, the little ones which had no knowledge between good and evil" they went in, and God gave it(the land) to them(the little ones), and they(little ones again) possessed it!!

i am I am's!!

Willis

 

In their flesh, "YES"!!!!

In their soul, "NO"!! (I am talking about from birth until God imputes sin unto them)

I am sure will disagree with this, however.......

 

Luke, buddy, you need to get you some reading glasses.....please do not put words in my posts that aren't there. I have enough trouble with this myself......:laugh:

Here we go again. A baby has sin in their flesh; this happened due to Adam's fall. Our flesh from the time we are born, is seperated from Him. When we recognize God as God, and glorify Him not as God, then it is imputed unto us for sin.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

EVERYONE WHO HAS EVER BEEN BORN, NEEDS THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, PERIOD!!! TO BE A SINNER, ONE MUST HAVE COMMITTED SINS! Now, show me where a baby can commit even one sin. Don't give me the one where they come forth from the womb "speaking lies", unless you consider, "agooo", "gaa gaa", "bluuurgghhh" lying, because that's all a baby can speak. Jesus' Blood opened heaven up for us, whether it be OT saints, or NT believers.

Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

 

Let me clear up what I meant by "NO" in this post.

Sin is what seperates us from God, correct, Bro. Luke??

This is why I say that when we are born, our flesh is seperated from God because of Adam's sin in the Garden.

Our soul dies when God imputes sin to our "soul", and then we die(spiritually seperated from God).

Whatever sin a baby does, they are not aware of it, and God does not hold them accountable for it. This doesn't exclude the need of the Blood of Jesus, its just that where there is no law, there is no transgression.

Running around nude is a sin, and babies do it every chance they get!! Does God hold them accountable for it? I don't think so.

Getting a cookie when mommy tells them not to, then they get caught and they say, "I got this cookie for you, mommy", is this a lie? Yes. But they are not aware of this as being a sin towards God, they are just trying to keep their "fanny cool".

These two examples I have given you are examples of their "sin nature". It's a sin, yes, and if they die, they have the Blood of Christ to plead their case before the Father's Throne in heaven. This "sin nature" still needs the Blood of Christ to plead their case if they die in infancy, because they can't plead for themselves. I hope this clears this up some!! I really do love you, Bro. Luke, so please do not take these discussions as being "personal." Have a good week, or whats left of it!! :thumbs: :thumbs:???

i am I am's

Willis