Hebrews 6:4-6

quote from tentmaker;
I agree with you, the bible all matches. What I am saying is this, Your interpretation of Heb 3 and Revelation 22 and most of the other verses you have used in this thread is faulty. You have espoused ideas that come in conflict with other passages and with the Bible as a whole. Either the Bible is false or you are. Which would you like me to believe?

What I am saying very clearly is that your interpretation of Hebrews is false because you have created a contradiction between Hebrews and I John. That contradiction does not exist in scripture if it is understood correctly. I am using scripture to interpret scripture.

My interpretation certainly is not false. I am reading exactly what the bible says. I then asked someone to explain how there is no contradiction yet the verses say two different things. Your reference to Hebrews and 1 John are a perfect example.
The answer is very simple. There are divisions in the scripture that must be rightly divided.
II Tim. 2:15 15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
As for who was unkind to who. You stated that my interpretaion is faulty, I don't read the bible enough, I try to prove a point using one liners etc..
Guess what I'm a big boy I can take it. Sticks and stones man. What upsets people is straight talk. When people cannot prove their point with scripture they get frustrated.
Let's be adults here. Discuss scripture. If you don't agree with me show me from the bible why. I promise I will not lose any sleep over it.

Look in your bible in the book of Leviticus.
Find a place in there where God states what a person must do who has sinned.
Animal sacrifice right?
Now I ask you does that match 1 John 1:9?
No it does not. Is there a contradiction? No
There is a division in the scriptue and it is up to the child of God to study to find it.
You cannot explain away a verse as plain as Hebrews 6 by saying well 1 John says...
You must address each verse and see how it fits with all other scripture.
God told the folks in the Old Test. to keep the Sabbath-Saturday right?
Why don't you keep the Sabbath? You go to church on Sunday?
Is there a contradiction in scripture? No there is a division.
Now shall we proceed?
Is there anyone who wants to dig into this?
I do.

 

quote from Matt;
I have no big guns either way! It's not a massive concern of mine. My question is simply this - is the thread about Hebrews 6 or not? If it is, then why are you referring to other Scriptures? If it is not,your rather terse post to me on p2 was out of order, methinks. If we are debating as adults, let's try to be a little more civil to each other.

Right like not accusing me of smacking you down when all I said was" Matt we are discussing Hebrews."

I am comparing scripture with scripture to determine why Hebrews 6 says what it says.
We are in this thing now and we are going to go all out. Eternal security and all.

 

quote from charles;
Sounds like the heat in the kitchen is getting to you!

Hardly.

I truly wish we could debate the points here.
I am as much or more in agreement with eternal security as anyone here.
I also am not simple concerning scripture that I think it was doctrine throughout the ages.
That is a church age doctrine. It did not apply to Old Testament saints nor will it apply to Trb. saints.

That is what we are talking about here. Divisions in the scriptures.
As for the heat the only heat is people whining. Now can we discuss the scriptures.

As for going to the Greek. What would be the point?
We all speak English, we live in an English speaking country, our bibles are in English. We are debating in English.
Unless of course you think that the bible was not interpreted correctly in English.
If that is the case your debate is on a nother thread.
Come on now. Do you mean to tell me that you cannot defend your position on the scriptures in English?
I know the Greek game. Been through it. Then we have to decide whose Greek interpretation we will accept and on and on it goes.
Come on now enough chitter chatter can we discuss some scripture now.
I'll make you a deal. If you don't get upset with my posts I will not get upset with yours. Say anything you like it does not bother me.
But if your going to blather have some bible relevant to the discussion.

 

quote from Kieth;
Anyway, Paul (or the writer of Hebrews) did not write in English.

Paul didn't live in an English speaking coountry and he did not have an English bible.

Pentecost was a beautiful thing wasn't it?
Everyone heard the message in THEIR OWN LANGUAGE.

quote from Kieth;
Especially if grammatical construction enhances our ability to understand a difficult passage

It doesn't. Go to the version thread and read the 1000's of posts for proof.
Which Greek? Whose Greek? What tense? What a bunch of junk!

 

Amen Charles!

 

Quote from Artimaeus;
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened...If they shall fall away, to renew them again

That is a true statement. If they fall away they can't be renewed. "IF" is the key word. It doesn't say "Those who fall away can't be renewed." It says IF they fall away. The question is, "CAN they fall away?" Scripture says, no. You wanted scripture references, well, here you go.

I don't remember who made the staement but it went something like this.

"If it can't happen then only a moron would write what if it did happen."
Now we know the Author of Hebrews is no moron.
Therefore the must be more to the story.
I commend you for your use of the scriptures. However you failed to point out that the scripture that support eternal security are all doctrinally for the church age saints.

Rev 22:15 is in the bible too. God said he will take away someones part out of the book of life. The must have had a part or he could not have taken it away.
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Matt. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

You have to reconcile these verses with the entire bible or there is a contradiction.

I know there are no contradictions. There are divisions in the scriptures that must be rightly divided.

If you do much personal work with the lost you have to answer these types of questions. You cannot just simply excuse the verse by pointing to 50 others. You must explain how it fits in scripture.

 

Not so fast tentmaker.
I know that a church age saint has eternal security. Noone is debating that.
Please do not post any more verses to that affect without facing the plain text of Heb. 6

There is plainly a division here as there is in Rev., Acts, Matt. etc..
You cannot simply explain it away by quoting 50 verses.

God in the Old Test. required animal sacrifices for sins right?
There are many verses to that affect in Leviticus alone.
If someone brought those verses to your attention would you explain them away by quoting 1 John 1:9 or would you tell them that God dealt differently then than he does now.
That is the type of division I am talking about. Everyone is so quick to defend eternal security that they will not face the palin statement made in the verse.

 

John 3 :16

God so loved the world thay he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER shall believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
( I see no If you fall clause you lose it) but let's look further shall we?

John 3: 17

For God sent not his Son in to the world to condemn the world.; but that the world though him might be saved.

(Clear promise still no opinion of losing)

But , there is something i'm not understanding psr maybe you can enlighten me on. I read the whole Chapter 6 to me it seems like a warning. To be honest it looks like it applies to False teachers of today. In verses 2 it's talking about laying on hands , resurrection of the dead.

"What if" the LORD is talking about these once saved men who have fallen from grace and become backslidden because of greed.

Going down to verse 10 it talkes about how God will not forget your work and labor of love.

Could he be possibly talking about people who were true minsiters of HIS word who have fallen because of greed and corruption?

 

I was always taught that we should read what is before and what is after the scirpture in question. That would make the meaning plainer. Which is why my post is like it is. I'm wondering if i'm correct or mistaken and would appriciate some imput thank you

 

Hebrews 6 is not doctrinally for the church age. Never has been. The context and title is Hebrews.
This has evolved into eternal security in this thread because of the nature of the verse.
I went to tentmakers new thread and displayed through scripture that what he believes does not match scripture.
Here is just one of the verses I posted.
Eph. 33 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Which in other ages was not known. Now you are not calling God a liar are you. God said in other ages this gospel was not known.

Show me one person in the Old Testament who was born again. Show me one instance in the Old Testament where a person was told to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

Show me one instance of anyone in the Old Testament quoting anything like what you quote for salvation.

Show me one person in New Testament sacrificing a bullock or ram for a sin atonement. Show me one person in the New Testament going to a flesh and blood high priest to have their sins atoned for.

Show me one person in the Old Testament that is "IN Christ"

There are not any.

 

Artimaeus? You don't see the relevance of the verse in Rev?
Rev 22:15 is in the bible too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't see the relevance.

Someone has their name TAKEN OUT of the book of life.