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Hell Is Not the Lake of Fire

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Hark, Mar 2, 2021.

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  1. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    2 Peter 3:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; KJV

    Look it up in your modern bible version because it is there.

    2 Peter 3:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; NIV

    2 Peter 3:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; NASB

    2 Peter 3:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; ESV

    So this place called hell is a holding area before the final judgment of being cast into the lake of fire therefore hell is not the lake of fire

    The charge that KJV mistranslated it as hell when it should be sheol or Hades as if hell is the lake of fire is false. Not one anti-KJV considered why there are 2 names for that place; why not just stick with Hades? Why use sheol as another reference for Hades? If the scripture allows for that, then hell can be allowed for it too.

    As it is, hell, aka hades, aka sheol & death will be cast into the lake of fire so this charge against the KJV needs to be dropped.

    Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. KJV
     
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  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    before you post things that show you do not understand what you are saying, it is best the you check whe the Hebrew and Greek has to say, which is lost in the English translations! You are arguing from Bible versions that do not correctly reflect the originals.

    2 Peter 3:4 reads, "They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”. so where is any reference to hell here? You want 2 Peter 2:4, here the Greek is "ταρταρόω", and not "ᾍδης", or "γέεννα"
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No need to get sidetracked with a typo, 2 Peter 2:4 is the verse cited in the OP. And the Greek word translated as "hell" is "tartaroo" and refers to - "the name of the subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to Gehenna of the Jews." (Strong's)

    Scripture gives us four names, the Hebrew translated as sheol, the Greek Hades, Gehenna and Tartaroo, and the Greek designation "lake of fire." A prevailing view is that the "lake of fire" is located in "Gehenna."
     
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  4. Roy

    Roy <img src=/0710.gif>
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    Hell Is Not the Lake of Fire

    Based on Revelation 20:14, it seems that Hell and the lake of fire are different. As bad as Hell is, it will get worse when it is thrown into the lake of fire.
     
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  5. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    On what grounds do you draw that conclusion? Do you have the originals for comparison?
     
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  6. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the correct reference of 2 Peter 2:4. However, since the angles bound in chains are awaiting their judgment, then hell cannot be the lake of fire when hell shall be cast into the lake of fire.

    Thank you for sharing.
     
  7. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the correct reference of 2 Peter 2:4 also.

    Since 2 Peter 2:4 has angels presently bound in chains in hell awaiting judgment which is the lake of fire, it stands to reason that hell cannot be the lake of fire, although one day it will be thrown in it.

    Thank you for the additional information, although not sure why the prevailing view is that the lake of fire would be located in Gehenna as if there is a place to serve any purpose outside the lake of fire since the lake of fire is the final judgment
     
  8. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    @Dave G 2 Peter 2:4 is the correct reference in case you did not see the other 2 posters that corrected me of my typo.
     
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  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    the English versions do not always reflect what the original Hebrew and Greek say. If you know anything about translating the Bible, or reading them in the Hebrew and Greek, and then comparing them with our English versions, you will see what I mean
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    In the Old Testament the Hebrew word is "sheol". It is used for the state of the dead, as in, “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave (sheol) who shall give thee thanks?” (Ps. 6:5; cf. 18:5). Then it is used of a place of conscious existence after death, as in “go down into the grave (sheol) unto my son mourning” (Gen. 37:35). In Numbers 26:30, we are told that the wicked to into "sheol" alive, "But if the Lord creates something new, and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into Sheol, then you shall know that these men have despised the Lord.”. Psalm 9:17 states, "The wicked will return to Sheol— all the nations who forget God."
    Sheol is also a place where the righteous go to after they die, as Jacob says in Genesis 37:35. Sheol is a place that has two "compartments", one where the righteous are in, and the other where the wicked suffer in. Jesus uses this in His description of "ᾍδης" (Hades), which is the NT Greek equivatent of "sheol", in Luke 16:19-31. Here we read of a poor man names Lazarus, who died and was taken to "Abraham’s Bosom" (ver. 22), a name for "Paradise". Then we also read of a rich man who also died, and went to "ᾍδης" (23). From this important passage we can seen that the rich man in hell, was "in torments" (23), and was able to see Lazarus, who was in "comfort" (25). There is also a fixed "gulf" between the two places, and those in either place, could not "cross over" to the other. Their destinies are fixed. (ver.26). It is also important to note, that both the rich man and Lazarus are fully conscious of what is going on. This place is "ᾍδης", which is not the permanent place of suffering for the wicked. In Revelation 20:14 it says, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death". "hell" here is "ᾍδης", and it will finally be itself cast into "τὴν λίμνην τοῦ πυρός", literally, "the lake of the fire". In verse 10 it says, "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.". Note the Greek here, "τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων", literally, "the ages the ages", the sum-total of all time in the future, with emphasis on its duration being "without end". Also important is the fact, that we are told that at the beginning of the 1000 years, "And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur." (19:20). In 20:10, we read that the "beast and false prophet" are STILL in the "lake of fire", a 1000 years later! This shows conclusively that the Bible does not teach any "annihilation" for the wicked lost, after they die. In the Book of Jude we read, "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire." It is important to note here, that the word "undergoing", in some versions "suffering", in the Greek is "υπεχουσαι", which is the present active participle. Showing that at the time Jude wrote this, those who were cast into "hell" in Genesis from Sodom and Gomorrah, 1000's of years earlier, were still very much "suffering punishment". The wicked are not totally destroyed after death as some falsely teach.
     
  11. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Would not your Biblical references for sheol just be referring to their bodies going to the grave rather than their spirits?

    Thanks for sharing the judgment on those that had received the mark of the beast that they were cast into the lake of fire at their defeat for marching against Jerusalem at His second coming before the final judgment of everyone else at the Great White Throne Judgment to be cast into the lake of fire. I had missed that.

    I agree that there is no annihilation but eternal torment for those suffering in hell & the eventual lake of fire.
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    The body decomposes in the grave. The spirit which is the life of the person, returns to God Who gave it, Ecclesiastes 12:7. It is the soul of the human that is eternal, and will either go to heaven or hell (Ezekial 18:20, The soul that sinneth, it shall die). I am not convinced from Scripture, that the "fire" of hell is literal, though the suffering is, though this is in "degrees", as Luke 12:47-49, tells us of the punishment of many and few "stripes". I am still open on this.
     
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  13. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I apply sheol as not another reference for hell since it is used in scripture for the grave for where the body goes but not the spirit.

    Luke 12:47-49 is about a different kind of fire coming on the earth. Peter mentioned it in 2 Peter 3:3-10 & then there is that fire mentioned in Revelation that burns up one third of the earth which I believe is the entire western hemisphere including Babylon USA as described in Revelation 18:1-23 for which event takes place by the second angel of the 3 that sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth in Revelation 14:1-14 after the rapture.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Several verses refer to Gehenna of the fire (Matthew 18:9, Mark 9:43, Luke 12:5, and James 3:6). And note the common concepts, fire and being cast into it. (Compare with Revelations 20:14-15)
     
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  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    The Greek Old Testament (LXX), which was completed some 150 years before the Birth of Jesus Christ, does not have the word "gehenna". The Jewish Philosopher, Philo (25 B.C.-A.D.50), never used the word. Nor does the Jewish historian Josephus, who lived just after the death of Jesus (A.D.37-100).

    Though it is used in the non-canonical books, for fiery judgment (1 En. 10:13; 48:8–10; 100:7–9; 108:4–7; Jdt 16:17; 2 Bar. 85:13), a judgment usually in a fiery lake or abyss (1 En. 18:9–16; 90:24–27; 103:7–8; 2 En. 40:12; 2 Bar. 59:5–12; 1QH 3). The‎ Valley‎ of‎ Hinnom,‎ often ‎referred‎ to‎ simply ‎as‎―the‎ accursed ‎valley or‎―abyss, then‎ came ‎to‎ represent the place of eschatological judgment of the wicked Jews by fire (1 En. 26–27; 54:1–6; 56:1–4; 90:24–27)
     
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  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    I admit that this is the most difficult and sad Bible Teaching for me, though I accept that it is in the Bible :Cry
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Our English translations use of the four names and one description as "Hell" creates confusion. When different places (Hades and Gehenna) are translated using the same word (Hell) the result is obliteration of the inspired distinction. I recommend writing an H for Hades, or a G for Gehenna beside the word "Hell" in your bible. You can find the actual inspired word in a Reverse Interlinear.

    The Greek word (Gehenna) is found at:
    Matthew 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15 and 33
    Mark 9:43, 45, 47
    Luke 12:5
    James 3:6
     
    #17 Van, Mar 3, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Very good article on this here!
    Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the Grave
     
  19. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Interesting.

    Strong's concordance has it as two different meaning; a valley in Jerusalem & hell.

    "of Hebrew origin (1516 and Hinnom 2011); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:--hell."

    @SavedByGrace has references that I can only see as referring to the grave. I know Strong's Concordance does not define everything as they should in regards to how it is used in the verse. We should always rely on Jesus, even for that.

    Thanks for sharing.
     
  20. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    (((((((((((((( @SavedByGrace ))))))))))))))))))) hugs
     
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