Hells Nursery

What a foolish statement. Tell me, what sin has my son commit at eight months? Do you even KNOW what sin is? Let me help you out a little...
1 John 3:4 Everyone who commits sin also breaks the law; sin is the breaking of law.

Romans 7:7 What should we say then? Is the law sin? Absolutely not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin if it were not for the law. For example, I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, You shall not covet.

 

No you do not. You sin BECAUSE you are a sinner. Let me ask you a question Matt, why do we need Christ in our live? If you were to witness to an aborigine what would be the reason you would tell them they need Christ in their lives?

When you tell your son about Jesus and he asks why Jesus died what are you going to tell him? That he died to save us, from what Matt? If we are not sinful then why do we commit sinful acts?

 

That sounds just totally illogical to me: I am a sinner because I sin, not the other way round. Basic English lesson: a 'sin(n)-er' is 'one who sins', just as a 'box-er' is 'one who boxes', a 'lorry drive-r' in 'one who drives lorries' .You don't come across someone who says "I'm a lorry driver but I've never driven a lorry", do you? No, that would be absurd! It is equally absurd to describe someone as a sinner who has never sinned.

As to the aborigine, s/he will have sinned and therefore be in need of the blood of Jesus to forgive his/her sins. Jesus died for our sins. By the time my son is old enough to understand that when I tell him that, he will undoubtedly have committed sins which need Jesus' death to forgive. But right now he hasn't.

 

You have this backwards. You are a sinner BECAUSE you sin! Being born with a sin nature, and being born sinning out of the box are two totally different things.

 

Being born with a sin nature is why we sin. If you did not have a sin nature would you be inclined to sin? No. There for you sin because you are a sinner.(By nature). It is your nature, your desires that cause you to sin.

 

But you can only be punished for sin, nothaving a fallen nature, surely? Otherwise where is the justice in the punishment?

 

God's character of love and grace is why I believe babies do not go to hell, but I do hold that if they did God would be just in doing so. We inherited the sinful nature from Adam and because of that one trangression we are condemened. Is it just that every woman since Eve has to bear pain in child birth? Is it just that us men now have to work for the things we recieve. I mean we were not there why are we punished?

Because Adam was our representative, and in his failing he has condemned us to sin. Yet God has provided a way for us to be redeemed, do we deserve this mercy no. You see the problem is people think they deserve to take part in Christ's success, but not in Adam's failure.

 

Not true Barnabas spoke of it in 70A.D. "Learn: before we believed in God, the habitation of our heart was corrupt and weak."

Ignatius said in 110 AD- "They that are carnal(unbelievers) cannot do the things that are spritual...Nor can the unbelievers do the things of belief."

Justin Martyr 150AD-"Mankind by Adam fell under death, and the deception of the serpent; we are born sinners...No good thing dwells in us...for neither by nature, nor by human understanding is it possible for men to acquire the knowledge of things so great and divine, but by the energy of the Holy Spirit...Of ourselves it is impossible to enter the kingdom of God...He has convicted s of the impossibility of our nature to obtain life..."

Origen-"Our free will...or human nature is not sufficient to seek God in any manner."


All these at least a hundred years before Augustine.


Because he coined the term does mean he coined the thought.

 

Well with the extreme selfcenteredness of all infants the 1st commandment.
If he is like any other infant, the fourth commandment.

All it takes is one, as James writes if you break one you break them all.

Matt,
We are sinners because we sin, and we sin because we are sinners. It is nasty little trap and the reason why we need the Gospel because we can't hope to do anything but sin.

 

Give proof that all infants are born "self centered", and don't use the cop out crying argument either. Infants can only communicate one way...by crying. To call this self centered is ignorance in motion.

This board can be so frustrating at times...

 

HP_ Sorry I do not have the reference. I wrote it down when I attended a talk on origianl sin and the speaker did not say which of Martyrs works they were from.


But, scripture does diagnose sin as a universal deformity of human nature, found at every point in every person (1 Kin 8:46; Rom. 3:9-23;7:18; 1 John 1:8-10).

 

Yeah it can be frustrating when your pet theories are disabused by the truth. The only things an infant cares about is food in his or her stomach, sleeping, and a clean diaper. In a very real sense their god is food or their stomach depending on how you look at it and that is a definite violation of the 1 st commandment.

 

What is frustrating is reading warped views like this. Babies worship food? Your outlandish claims would mean EVERY human who needs to eat, sleep and use the bathroom are being selfish. You would have to include Christ into this group, too. Did you forget that Jesus was an infant at one point, who only cared about eating every two hours, sleeping and having His diaper changed? Did He sin? Your arguments continue to fall flat on its face.

 

Would be interested in knowing where this came from so I could read more of what was said there.