Help me out here...calling all Greek Geeks

I didn't cheat,

I'll go with #5.

My translation:

Διὰ τοῦτο - Therefore
ὥσπερ - just as,
διʼ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου - through one man
ἡ ἁμαρτία - sin
εἰς τὸν κόσμον – into the cosmos
εἰσῆλθεν - came
καὶ - and
διὰ τῆς ἁμαρτίας – through sin
ὁ θάνατος, - death
καὶ οὕτως - (and) in this way
εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους - to all men
ὁ θάνατος διῆλθεν, - death moves
ἐφʼ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον because all sin


Rob

 

I'm not sure if you are asking us to just evaluate the translations, or as per your post #2 translate ourselves. I'd be happy to do my own translation if that is what you are asking (way to go, Rob!), but in the meantime I'll just evaluate. My translation method is called optimal equivalence, and was used for the NKJV and HCSB. I don't say it was used for the KJV since that would be reading a modern method into history, but the optimal equivalence principles were pretty much used by the KJV translators.

Without looking (of course), translation 1 is obviously the KJV, my preferred translation for beauty and accuracy of translation.

Translation 2 appears to be Young's, and it is the closest to the Greek if you are asking for pure literalism. However, that doesn't really cut it. Unless your internal "universal grammar" is properly tuned and trained (in other words, you are a linguist), you'll probably have trouble understanding Young's translation, since his English syntax ends up being strange due to his often slavish adherance to Greek word order.

Of modern versions 3-5, I choose #5 as the best. It not only sticks pretty close to the Greek, but has the best syntax. #3 is probably the Amplified, but I can't place 4 & 5 without cheating and looking. :type:

 

I don't see any real difference except English word choices. Perhaps you could indicate which particular part you are questioning.

 

I share your view on this. Concerning Wycliffe I wonder if the Vulgate agrees with his rendering and if not, does the context warrent Wycliffe's edit? I would like to see Tyndale's translation - which is probably the same as the KJV. In any case, I don't think a literal or "optimal equivalence" translation threatens the federal headship doctrine. The fact remains that men sin because sin is in them. The only real challenge to that would be those that support the age of accountability theory, who insist that infants are not lost until they actually committ a sin. But it would clearly require an eisogesis to use this portion of scripture to support that notion.

 

"Calling TCGreek! Calling TCGreek! Come in TCGreek! Over!" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

The Vulgate is: Propterea sicut per unum hominem in hunc mundum peccatum intravit et per peccatum mors et ita in omnes homines mors pertransiit in quo omnes peccaverunt.

Note that what Wycliffe translated as "in which man all men sinned" renders the final Latin phrase, in quo omnes peccaverunt. The prepositional phrase in quo is ablative, "in whom," translated correctly by Wycliffe. The problem is that this is just not in the Greek, as you can clearly see from Rob's translation in post #3. So Wycliffe is not faithful to the Greek. :type:

 

Or more specifically, Wycliffe was true to the Vulgate, but the vulgate was not true to the greek. Have I got that right?

 

Exactamundo.

 

Jerome revised the Old Latin versions, translating from the Greek and Hebrew. The Old Latin versions were from (or even originated, maybe) the Western text family. Jerome's Vulgate (which has been revised over the centuries, so we're not completely sure) was mostly Alexandrian, though it was a mixed text, retaining some Western readings and incorporating some Byzantine readings.