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Here's A Delightful Treat...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by TCGreek, Feb 23, 2008.

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  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. Well, it may not be a treat for some who read this, but I found it to be a treat on discovery.

    2. If you have been following the controversies between the ESV and the TNIV, then you may find this worthwhile.

    3. As you know, Wayne Grudem, Leland Ryken, and James Dobson and others are extremely critical and condemning of the TNIV.

    4. But get this, NT scholars who were involved with the ESV are in high praise of the TNIV. Does that mean that Grudem and Dobson will criticize and condemn to? I think they should if they want to be consistent. But that is not the case.

    Dr. Craig L. Blomberg. Professor of New Testament, Denver Seminary was a review scholar of the ESV but says this of the TNIV:

    "The TNIV avoids the overly free translation of certain texts that previous gender-inclusive translations have included, while rendering gender-inclusive uses of "man," "he," "brothers," and the like with appropriate, contemporary English exactly corresponding to the meaning of the original Greek or Hebrew. Not to do this leaves a Bible that increasingly misleads the modern reader; as the father of two daughters I know first hand how this works! And I remain a complementarian with respect to gender roles; the two issues are quite separate."

    Dr. Darrell L. Bock. Research Professor of New Testament Studies, Dallas Theological Seminary was a review scholar of the ESV but says this of the TNIV:

    "The TNIV is a fine translation whose goal of being sensitive to the English of its audience opens up the Word, especially to those who may not be familiar with Scripture. The use of alternatives in the marginal notes helps the reader see where the translation is disputed. It is clear, concise, and contemporary. In my book, that is three for three."

    5. Then we have the added excitement of those who are Reformed but are in support of the TNIV, since the ESV is touted as the Bible of choice for those in the Reformed community.

    Maybe the following will tell you exactly how I feel about it all: :BangHead:
     
    #1 TCGreek, Feb 23, 2008
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    It is interesting to know that Leland Ryken and his son Phillip ( who I admire ) co-wrote an instructional book about basic Bible doctrine using the NLTse as the primary translation .
     
    #2 Rippon, Feb 23, 2008
  3. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Rippon, the more and more I look into this controversy, it's the more and more I'm realizing the hypocrisy on some of the critics part of the TNIV.

    I really do not see the difference between the NLTse renderings of the "disputed" passages of the TNIV (Ps 1; 8; Heb 2 [NLTse is more transitional here]; Rev 3:20).

    Here's another thing, and I believe you have pointed this out before: the ESV footnoted "brothers and sisters" for adelphoi and has "brothers" in the text. This doesn't make sense.
     
    #3 TCGreek, Feb 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2008
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I agree with you TCG . Gradually the truth regarding TNIV is coming to light . The untruths of Grudem and Dobson will be seen for what it is .
     
    #4 Rippon, Feb 23, 2008
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    I was in a bookstore today and checked out JI Packer's latest book Gaurd Us, Guide Us.

    Well, for those like Rippon and myself, who follow MVs and some of the politics involve, you may find this interesting.

    The renowned JI Packer was the general editor of the ESV. Well, in his new book, he lists the TNIV as one of the versions he uses in the book. In fact, I went to a TNIV reference in the book just to be certain of how he was using it. Well, he uses it in a positive sense. Why is this important?

    Well, alongside of JI Packer on the ESV was Wayne Grudem. Grudem is pro-ESV and anti-TNIV, but we have JI Packer, the general editor of the ESV, endorsing essentially, the TNIV that one of this chief fellows on the ESV, dislikes.

    What a conundrum!
     
    #5 TCGreek, Mar 8, 2008
  6. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Rippon,

    Kindly pardon the intrusion-

    I appreciate your contributions to our understanding of version issues and differences. However, I think that it is wrong to call Dobson, etal 'anti-TNIV' just as it is for a KJVO to call you or me 'anti-KJV'.

    Back to my neutral corner now.
     
    #6 Mexdeaf, Mar 9, 2008
  7. 2serve

    2serve New Member

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    I have read some, not all of the postings about "fundamentalism" as well as the postings about the "KJVO' issue and if I may, I would very much like to add my humble oppinion. I have seen many of the new Gone With The Wind novels and a great many new renditions of several of Shakespeare's numerous works and I don't know about anyboby else but it almost offends me that these people would attempt to improve upon these works and then call it after the same original name.

    I was talking with one of my coworkers ( a muslim from Eqypt) several years ago in an attempt to lead him to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and he absolutly refused to trust the words of a book that had so many different "translations" I do so hope that he has or will eventually change his mind. Don't you?

    I have always thought that if I were to rewrite Stephen Cranes "Red Badge of Courage" in a more understandable fashion, then it would in fact not say the same thing as the one that Stephen Crane wrote. Would it?

    Why is it then that it doesn't bother us that "the Bible" has been translated into more than two hundred different versions? Does that in and of it's self tell us that they don't all say the same thing? Things that are different are not the same. Right?

    I believe that the Answer lies in the consideration of the origins of the translational texts and not in the intention of the translators, " The heart is deceitful above all things and deperately wicked...".

    Surely by now you realize that I am one of those KJVO " INDI FUNDIES".
    I said all of that to say this.
    I think that it is a blight on the face of christ that all that we know to do is to sit around and attack those that don't agree with us. God please forgive us.

    I disagree with the vast majority of "christians" and even "Baptists" about something. "But The Greatest of these is Love". God forgive us! I think that I'll just Love people and hope that I can reach one more with the Gospel before they fall headlong into Hell for ETERNITY. (in Love)
     
    #7 2serve, Mar 17, 2008
  8. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    The problem here has more to do with translation itself than with the multiplicity of translations. Muslims generally do not consider any translation a true Koran. That's why learning Arabic is key for a Muslim.

    If we had a similar approach, it wouldn't be that we would only use the KJV but that we would only use the Greek and Hebrew texts. That brings up a question of which texts to use, but it wouldn't be a translational issue.
     
    #8 StefanM, Mar 17, 2008
  9. 2serve

    2serve New Member

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    (In Love)
    We Don't have the same approach, (ie."I" am more Sola Scriptura)
    Matt.4:4, Ex.4:15, 2Tim.3:16, Ps.12:6-7
    Ps.119:11, 16, 17, 25, 28, 38, 41, 42, 43, 49, 50, 58, 65, 67, 74, 76, 81, 82, 89, 101,105,107,114, 116,123,133,140,147,148,154,158,160,161,162,169,170,172

    Ok I'll be waiting on the stones:tonofbricks:

    Oh yeah, neirther I nor 99% of the English speaking world are fluint in Aramaic or Coine Greek, both of which are dead languages.
     
    #9 2serve, Mar 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2008
  10. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Why you brought up the Aramaic language is unclear (perhaps you confused it with "Arabic"). Anyway, its not "dead" since many people today still speak a modern form of Aramaic dialect natively. And I've never seen koine spelled with a 'C' before; its hard to take your message seriously with so many fluent errors (at least you'll be able to correct your home state typo). Nobody's perfect, but (in love) if you've got something to say, it should be worth saying properly (1 Corinthians 10:31).
     
    #10 franklinmonroe, Mar 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2008
  11. 2serve

    2serve New Member

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    Thank you Franklin, it would appear that I am a bit cixelsyd. Oh and I noticed that I also spelled neither (neirther) may God bless as I get my act together.

    Ok I'll be waiting on the stones:tonofbricks:
     
    #11 2serve, Mar 17, 2008
  12. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Dobson and Grudem are certainly anti-TNIV .
     
    #12 Rippon, Mar 17, 2008
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