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Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Parts 5-9

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Protestant, May 28, 2014.

  1. Protestant

    Protestant Active Member

    Jul 6, 2013
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    It is one thing to deny the testimony of psychics, kooks and Marian apparitions.

    It is quite another to deny or ignore altogether centuries of testimony by honest, sober, serious Christians who had undergone intense interrogation by ecclesiastical authorities for the purpose of convicting the dissenters of Manichean heresy.

    Conviction resulted in loss of property, personal freedom and, ultimately, one’s life.

    DHK accuses this writer of being ‘confused.’

    By so doing he accuses the ancient Albigense and Waldense Christians of being 'confused.'

    In turn, he accuses all the Reformers and their Confessions, including the 1689 London Baptist Confession, of being 'confused.'

    For they all profess the same prophetic truth which I profess:

    The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God; whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ depicts a spiritual war between Christ’s true Church and Satan’s false Church.

    This war was announced in the Garden of Eden:

    And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Rev. 12 predicts the fulfillment of this prophecy:

    And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
    3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    It is the pagan Roman seed of Satan the serpent who persecutes and kills the seed of the woman, Jesus Christ.

    It is also a Roman seed of the serpent, called a 'beast,' who persecutes and kills the followers of Jesus through the centuries.

    That seed is of the same royal lineage as that of pagan Roman rulers.

    Both hold the office of Pontifex Maximus, 'high priest.'

    There is one important distinction, however.

    Though portrayed as a beast by his blasphemous words and reprehensible actions, the 'new' Pontifex Maximus will insist he is a good, moral God-fearing Christian man, an Apostle, given authority to rule the Christian Church by divine mandate.

    He will deceive much of the world, including Futurists who look for another to fulfill the Antichrist prophecies.

    However, Christ promises no such deception to His elect:

    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    The ancient Christians were not deceived.

    Thanks to the numerous Roman Catholic priests who were converted to Gospel truth, the Scriptures were translated into their native tongues.

    Though lacking formal theological training, the Holy Spirit quickly revealed to the nations' townspeople fulfillment of the Antichrist prophecies in the Church of Rome.

    Armed with certain proof that the Roman Church was the Babylonian whore of Revelation, the ancient Christian dissenters made good use of this truth when evangelizing.

    They compared the Scriptural model of true Christianity with the unscriptural Roman model.

    The discrepancy was immediately noticed and conversions were so numerous that in order to combat the rising tide of opposition to their Church, the Roman authorities enacted laws against evangelizing and Bible reading.

    Finding little compliance among the protesting Christians, the Catholic Church authorized their extermination by means of force via the Albigense Crusades and centuries of Papal Inquisitions.

    NEXT: Part 6: How a prominent Inquisitor described their character and evangelizing methods.
  2. Protestant

    Protestant Active Member

    Jul 6, 2013
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    Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Part 6

    Let us now examine the demeanor, character and lifestyles of the Christian dissenting ‘heretics’ as described by the infamous Dominican Inquisitor Reinerius Sacco in his A. D. 1254 Summa Against the Heretical Sects:

    Next, Reinerius describes how they manage to convert the upper class citizens with whom they would not ordinarily have private social interaction.

    As a result of such conversions, the dissenting Christians formed strong alliances with their secular rulers which often gave them protection from both Church and other secular authorities.

    I ask the Reader, Do these arguments against the Church of Rome sound like the ravings of ‘confused’ persons?

    I also ask the Reader, Have you ever before considered the multitudinous parallels between the Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees with the Roman Catholic Church bishops, priests, monks and friars?

    Are the parallels mere coincidences or are they prophetic fulfillment intended to reveal the mystery of iniquity?

    NEXT: Part 7: More Testimony of the Ancient Christians against Antichrist.
  3. Protestant

    Protestant Active Member

    Jul 6, 2013
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    Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Part 7

    Let us now examine the A. D. 1241 Summa Against the Cathars [Albigenses] written by Moneta of Cremona, a Dominican friar and University professor who was most likely an Inquisitor.

    Next, Friar Moneta details ‘How the Heretics Prove that the Roman Church is not the Church of God.’

    Again, I ask the Reader, who is confused?...........the ancient Christians or DHK?

    NEXT: Part 8: Excerpts from Dominican Inquisitor Bernard Gui’s The Conduct of the Inquisition of Heretical Depravity.
  4. Protestant

    Protestant Active Member

    Jul 6, 2013
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    Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Part 8

    The following excerpts are taken from Dominican Inquisitor Bernard Gui’s A.D. 1323 classic, The Conduct of the inquisition of Heretical Depravity:

    NEXT: Part 9: 12th Century Waldense Treatise on Antichrist
  5. Protestant

    Protestant Active Member

    Jul 6, 2013
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    Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Part 9

    12th Century Waldense Treatise on Antichrist

    Let us continue our examination of the prophetic teachings of these ancient Pre-Reformation Christians. Below I give excerpts. The full treatise may be accessed at http://www.iconbusters.com/iconbusters/htm/false_prophets/waldensian.pdf

    The Reader need note the admonition in the last sentence: Antichrist has come and Christians should look for no other.

    In other words, Futurism is a dangerous deceit which gives comfort to the Church’s arch enemy, Antichrist, who has already been revealed to the Elect by the Spirit of God.

    Futurists would have you believe the ancient Christians died for a lie because they were either:

    1. Confused and, thus, should be pitied.

    2. Honestly mistaken, though quite sincere, and, thus, should be pitied.

    3. Thoroughly deceived due to ignorance of Scripture and, thus, should be pitied.

    4. Definitely deluded due to cunning Scripture twisting by their false teachers and, thus, should be pitied.

    5. Or they were all intentionally lying --- false prophets seeking to bring vast numbers of simpletons into their congregation by whatever means necessary due to an unjust bias and prejudice against an innocent Roman Church and, thus, should be damned.

    By no mere ‘coincidence’, proposition # 5 is the attitude of the Roman Catholic Church toward those who testified against them.

    Of course, there is another explanation:

    They were telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth as Jesus promised: Matt. 10:17-20; Mark 13:9-11; Luke 12:11-12; Luke 21:12-15.

    Further Testimony of Waldensian Beliefs

    The following excerpt is from the Inquisitor Reinerius in his A.D. 1254 Summa:


    To dismiss the centuries of truthful, Scripture-breathed testimony of God’s persecuted people as irrelevant, inconsequential or inadequate to identifying the Harlot and beastly Antichrist is tantamount to willfully closing one’s eyes and ears to what was obvious to generations of Christians, including the Pre-Reformers, Reformers and Puritans.

    Although open persecution by the Roman Church in democratic nations is nigh impossible in our generation, her influence is still unparalleled.

    What other world religion boasts the honor, prestige and respect as that of the Church of Rome?

    What other religious leader boasts the honor, prestige and respect as that of the Papal Antichrist?

    Presidents and Kings grovel at the feet of the reigning Papal Antichrist, exchanging gifts in a spirit of friendship and harmony.

    Charismatic and conservative Evangelical leaders grovel at the feet of the reigning Pope.

    The Press grovels at the feet of the reigning Papal Antichrist. His every word and movement is a major news event.

    And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
    And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

    Do you, Christian reader, still wonder after the identity of the Whore and Beast……as do the Futurists?
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Jul 13, 2000
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    I believe you are the one confused and possibly should be pitied.
    Look at the facts:
    1. The Antichrist is a person, also called "the man of sin." He will live an average life span of any other man on this earth, and no longer. He is human, a man. He is a person whom Satan will enter.
    He is also described as one riding on a horse. Perhaps the horse may not be literal but the person is.
    He is a person that will make a covenant with Israel. He will break that covenant. He is a man. The antichrist is an actual person. The Bible describes this man over and over again with human attributes.

    2. If you agree with the Albigenses and Waldenses that he came before 1618 (the publishing date of that book), then the Antichrist is dead, the false prophet is dead, The Tribulation is over, The Millennial Kingdom is over, and God has created a new earth and a new heaven.
    Where are you living? I don't know, but this is not a new earth!!
    This is the same sinful earth that history has known in the 1500's and 1600's. The curse has not been removed and man is just as rebellious against Christ now as he was then, if not more so. There is no man, no antichrist today that has lived from 1600 to 2014. Someone here is very confused, deluded and ought to be pitied, and it isn't me.

    3. There is only one Antichrist. If he was alive then, we should be living in the new earth and the new Jerusalem, but we aren't. Therefore the Waldenses, etc. were wrong.

    4. If the Antichrist is alive today, and had manifested himself we would be in the midst of the Tribulation facing the wrath of God. But thankfully we aren't.
    Someone is wrong. It is not me. Look around and be thankful that you are not going through the Tribulation, the wrath of God (not man), as described in the Book of Revelation.
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Mar 19, 2012
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    Does he hold that the catholic Church/papacy itself has been the Antichrist all this time?
    How can a church be the man of Sin, of perdition the Bible warns us against?

    When jesus returns, will he slay a man called Antichrist, or a church/system?

    if so, then how c
  8. Protestant

    Protestant Active Member

    Jul 6, 2013
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    Rightly Dividing the Word - Part 1

    Your exposition of one single Antichrist at the end of the world follows that of the originators of Futurism -- the Jesuits. They were the instigators of the Counter-Reformation, the enemies of Christ and His Church, who would have the ignorant public believe the Papacy is not the Antichrist depicted in numerous Scriptures.

    I cite the Jesuit Apologist, Cardinal Bellarmine, in his ‘celebrated’ Disputationes de controversiis christian fidei:

    Corroboration may be found here:

    Here is a third unbiased source which admits Bellarmine was a major influence, along with the Jesuit Francisco Ribera, in the promulgation of Futurism:

    I think it important all our readers understand the origin of the Futurism you blindly embrace.

    Your prophetic doctrine would be most welcome in any pedophile Roman Catholic church or monastery.

    I’ve no doubt the Holy Pontiff would allow you to greet him with a holy kiss upon his holy ring should your request for an audience with the Antichrist be granted.

    You rightly understand the Antichrist is a man, the man of sin, aka the beast from the sea (Rev. 13) and the scarlet beast of Rev. 17.

    You wrongly understand the prophetic teaching of Daniel which sets you off on a wild Jesuitical goose chase.

    But first things first. My aim is to make this simple, not for you, whose mind is already shut, but for the truth-seeking reader whose mind is still open.
  9. Protestant

    Protestant Active Member

    Jul 6, 2013
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    Rightly Dividing the Word, Part 2

    1. The woman is a false Christian church, Satan’s deception. She is contrasted with the true church, the bride of Jesus Christ.

    The false church is an idolatrous whore wearing purple and scarlet, dripping in worldly riches.

    The true church is a virgin, not of the world, wearing only white, the righteousness of Christ.

    2. The false church is the murderer.

    The true church is the one she murders.

    3. The false church is a city: Rome, that great city who reigns over the kings of the earth.

    The true church is also a city: New Jerusalem, the holy city who descends from Heaven.

    4. The false church contains a mystery: the mystery of iniquity.

    The true church is also contains a mystery: the mystery of godliness.

    5. The woman, the false church, sits on the scarlet beast with 7 heads and ten horns.

    The 7 heads are seven mountains: Rome.

    Therefore, her seat/throne/headquarters is located in Rome.

    Therefore she is a hierarchical Roman Church.

    6. The scarlet beast is also Roman since his seven heads signify the city of Rome.

    7. Furthermore, the scarlet beast is the 4th beast of Daniel 7: the Roman Empire.

    “The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.”

    8. Moreover, the scarlet beast is also the 8th head that is now the new seventh head who is the Antichrist, the son of perdition who goes into perdition (Rev. 17:11)

    9. The seven heads are seven kings. (Rev. 17:10)

    10. The head represents a ruling form of government, not a single person.

    This is proven in Daniel 2 where the head of the image signifies the Babylonian Kings: “Thou art this head of gold. And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee…”

    The Persian kingdom did not rise immediately after the reign of Nebuchadnezzar.

    A dynasty of four kings followed him:

    11. The Roman scarlet beast has 7 heads – 7 forms of government – 5 are fallen and are past. One is now in existence in John’s day: The dynasty of Pagan Emperors.

    12. The seventh head is yet to come from John’s perspective and will continue as a ruling authority for a short time period: Constantine the Great, the first ‘Christian’ Roman Emperor.

    13. When ‘Christian’ Constantine moved his throne to ‘New Rome’ in Byzantium, the ‘Christian’ bishop of Rome was now in a position to usurp the role of Emperor of the West. The Papacy succeeded to gain power and prestige through the fictitious ‘Donation of Constantine,’ as well as the fall of the Western Roman Empire in A.D. 476.

    14. The scarlet beast is the 8th head, the dynasty of Popes, who have supplanted the 7th head (‘Christian’ Emperors) as ‘Christian’ rulers and high priests of the revived Roman Empire, under the guise of Christianity.

    15. Thus far the dynasty of Popes numbers 264-267, depending on who is doing the counting.

    16. Therefore, the Man of Sin, the Antichrist, is not one single person at the end of the world, but a succession of men who hold the office of the Papacy one man at a time.
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Jul 13, 2000
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    You are entitled to your opinion, but that is all it is--opinion and nothing else. There is no sound exegesis of scripture, nor exposition of scripture.

    The man of sin is what it says it is: a man. It is not a succession of men, but a man. Take it for what it says.
    The woman is a person. Contrast it with Revelation 13. It is the second beast that rises out of the sea, otherwise known as the False Prophet. He will be a person, a religious leader; not an institution, but a leader of an institution, one who himself will be able to do miracles and deceive people.
    The beast that she rides is the antichrist, and the horns that protrude are political alliances. Again contrast with Revelation 13. He is a man, a political figure that will bring all nations together and rule over them. He is also seen in Revelation 6 as the one riding a white horse having a bow but no arrows. He will offer peace: a promise of peace, but peace that he will not keep. He will break his covenant. He is a person, not a line, or a succession, or an institution.
    He is still to come.